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Sunbows Feedback Topic

Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:55 pm

Hello everyone,

first of all, I do like AoC a lot. This is why I am taking the time to talk about my recent game issues and add suggestions how to fix / improve them. My feedback mostly regards the late-game (playing on server 41 which got merged a while ago).

1) Duels and Heroes (Attribute Bonuses)
Right now duels have very little to do with players using good formations or hero skills in an efficient way. The reason are the 30% bonuses you get as soon as you have a flat 60 points more for each attribute. Assuming your research and troops are at a similar level, you have a very little chance to win in case you lose the attribute race. Players start to equip 2 hands of wisdom on Rufio (since this trinket has the most total attributes) and ignore the +1 skill gear in favour of more attribute points.

1.1) In the battle result screen (details), you see the attribute differences in red / green. Obviously this screen should contain the resulting bonuses as well (pretty sure some players are not even aware that those bonuses exist). E.g. + 100 might (+30% AP) [there are tooltips showing it, but a direct view would be better].

1.2) When these bonuses got introduced, the flat values were most likely matched to the current total values, then more gear with better values got added and it no longer fits. Example: player 1 has 1000 total fielded command, player 2 has 1060. So player 2 has 6% more command resulting in a 30% buff. The solution would be to make the bonuses % based: up to 30%.

1.3) A max of 30% is very high, 10-20% would be more reasonable (especially the attack damage and speed combo scales).

1.4) Limit the amount of heroes that players are allowed to field in duels. I see many duels where players field basically all heroes they have to ensure they win the attribute race. Duels with 17+ heroes are very common. Since new heroes get added, we will see duels with 20+ heroes pretty soon. There should be a limit! Could be 10 or 15, just any limit would improve the game play a lot. With a limit it gets more tactical, since you need to focus on certain attributes and skill combinations.

1.5) The more heroes you play, the harder it gets to use active skills, since all skill icons are placed in one row. Play 17+ heroes and it gets pretty hard to tap the skill you want to use plus when heroes die skills move to a new spot and you might tap a skill you did not want to use. I started to ignore skilling many active skills at all just to have less icons in each battle. 1.3 would improve this already.

1.6) Gear-wise many active players are able to keep up, regarding the base attribute stats many players can not compete at all with whales, since you can not get enough attribute cards (see 3.2).

1.7) Grimms and Yips passive skill animations at the start of the battle make it hard to use the first skill, it would be nice to disable those.

1.8) For Yips tailwind it might be worth a thought to make it an aura working on the whole field, but reduce the amount of damage.

1.9) Every other battle type grants hero XP, except duels

1.10) If you get challenged and win, it would be a nice change to refund the energy spent.
(See viewtopic.php?f=40&t=13243&p=49687)

2.0) Lack of skill points
With the introduction of more skill points per hero (50 -> 80), players struggle to get their heroes maxed. The reason is fairly simple: Doing void runs, all daily dungeons and buying all available ones in the shop rotations results in around 1 new skill point per day. Imagine you have 20 heroes, so 20 * 30 = 600 missing skill points assuming you had all heroes maxed out before. Well, most players don't. Assume the average player has 30 bonus skill points on each hero it would be 20 * 50 = 1000 missing points. This means you need close to 3 years to max all heroes. Not reasonable! See 3.1.

3.0) Honor Shop
When the honor shop (Black Market) got introduced, we were told that this was just a start and players will get more options in the future. Time to deliver.
The items are ordered by priority

3.1) Skill points (around 20k / 40k or even 60k honor for one)

3.2) Attribute points (around 10k / 20k or even 30k honor for one)

3.3) Mana potions (you still have close to no options to get enough)

3.4) Recovery potions

3.5) Energy potions (Either energy potions OR 3.6, make sure they are expensive enough to prevent players from playing without limits)

3.6) Hero XP cards [optional]

4.0) General Shop
4.1) It would be nice to add 2 pages to each shop rotation: one for linari based items and one for gold based items.

4.2) More skill and attribute points for gold would be appreciated (1 per rotation?)

4.3) Add a progress bar for the non hero based chests to see, how many purchases are left to unlock the next tier.

4.4) Higher tier chest should have a free draw on cooldown once unlocked. E.g. gold chest 1 week, tier 3 two weeks, tier 4 one month.

4.5) Add a "calendar" for hero chests (like Avalon next, then Rufio, then Avril).

5.0) Hero Gear / Skills
Since you do need different gear and skills for siege, duels and void, there should be easier options to switch those. If you need to reskill 3+ heroes each time you want to switch your focus, the 48h cooldown to reskill one is no longer sufficient.

5.1) Add more hero gear / skill point tabs. Those could cost 1k linari to unlock.

5.2) Inside a pre battle setup screen, add the possibility to switch between the skill / gear combos (e.g. siege vs pvp)

5.3) Add the option to lock certain gear items (common in many games), so you don't transmute them by accident.

6) Building Queue
Already reported this one many months ago. Imagine a rakan player who wants to put another gold turtle on his wall. He will need to put his offense one to the wall and then rebuild this one, rendering him useless for duels / void / siege for several days.

6.1) Add a separate building queue for garrison troops, ignoring gold / silver / bronze caps.

6.2) Once you queue units for the wall, those should appear there and lock slots (like injured units, just with the text building)

6.3) Add the option to specify how many of your offense units you want to add to your wall (e.g. 10 of my 50 archers)

Those changes also increase the incentive to buy non hero chests to overcap. Why should you overcap for a lot of linari if you have to move those units to your wall sooner or later, since you otherwise can never create more defense units?

7) Defenses
With the latest hero boosts garrisons got pretty much useless with heroes reaching level 45 and it will get worse when more heroes reach level 50. I got a 300k human garrison and it already got cleared with close to zero losses.

7.1) There could be a new research academy tier to buff the garrison units more.

7.2) Defense setups: This one came up a lot already. Who on earth would want to field 8 swords and 7 archers in one fight?! As soon as you run out of swords, it will get 8 spears and 7 archers, once you run out of spears, knights get fielded. Once you run out of all other gold units, priests get fielded, BUT on the wall (silver archers would be better there).

7.2.1) Custom defense formations

7.2.2) Smarter default formations (for humans i would love to see formations playing max 4 swords, archers, spears, knights and priests at the same time). A bit of shuffling the positions would be appreciated to make it a little bit less predictable.

8) Battle formations
Please add an option to set them without the need of a real battle preparation.

9) Witch shops
The implementation was not thought through from the very start. 3 shops for all players on a server. Srsly? The player who clicks first wins, since not only he gets the sliding animations, but all other players looking into a shop as well, rendering them unable to click on an item.

9.1) How about making those shops available for each player per rotation? Less items of course.

9.2) Add mana potions?

10) Rakan
I remember that after human archers and acolytes got buffed there was an announcement, that xbow research tier 11 should get changed from bonus range to more damage. Did not happen yet. Still planned?

10) Dwarf
Please add something like wall revive for mech units. Many of the last game patches nerfed dwarf players more and more. The last one was the mass revive house skill. Especially since defense formations are such a mess (8 mech troops as the preferred setting...), there should be something in place like for lich walls.

11) Neutral Warehouses
They got pretty meaningless late game, a buff would be appreciated.

12) Cooldowns
It would be nice to add cooldowns to the quest list (below the active ones), this also should inculde warehouses and the rivendale well.

13) Player Power Score
13.1) Hero power counts way too little, could easily get multiplied by 10 or 20.

13.2) Bronze troops count way too much

13.3) Silver troops count a little too much

13.4) Gold troops should count more

13.5) The 2 random merc camps should not allow you to overcap

13.6) A separate highscore for total hero power would be nice.

14) Shield delay
Added from Quantums topic: A delay of 95s when triggering a shield would be appreciated. It can be frustrating in case you siege a wall, see nice loot numbers inside the replay and in the end you get zero. Since the attack started before the shield got pulled, you should get loot for this one. Right now the server checks if a shield was there at the end of the battle.

15) Login Reward Calendar
Common in most mobile games, like daily / weekly / monthly rewards. This a bit redundant to 4.4 (although 4.4 creates the incentive to spend linari to unlock the tiers -> more money for lilith). Login rewards increase the motivation to log in daily, should be obvious.
Update: The event calendar was a nice start, a calendar should get better items for frequent logins though, like you need 25 logins in one month to get the final reward.

16) Tactics School
Once completed this gets a "dead" (unused) building. You can not repeat missions, there are no refreshes / continued ways to play with rewards, so a change would make sense.

17) Map: Static Wagons (minor)
You loot them once, then they never refresh, but the objects stay on the map and are even clickable, making it sometimes challenging to hunt other players. I think they should get removed once looted.

18) City defense details
Limiting the view of details to house members was a good start, but on our merged server there are still a lot of spy (alt) accounts. It would be very nice to further limit the defense link details to the house leader, ministers and every member of one city.

19) Ability for ministers to move players to the capital
Right now, only city govs can move players, ministers can only kick them from the house. In case you want to save a player from getting plundered, it is no fun to ride to the city, become a gov there for 10 minutes just to move this poor soul. If ministers could do the same as govs, it would make it smoother.

20) Grind events with timers to win
Since the top players are able to finish these event within 9-10s (8 seems possible too), we need one or two more digits to keep it interesting. like player one did 9.14s, player two did 9.25s. With the current implementation, players loan as much as they can right at the start, reach 9s and as soon as the top3 is filled, there is no more reason for other players to even try it. It would also be nice to add additional rewards based on how many neutrals you defeated.

21) Heroes
21.1) Bane: the abilities for berserkers are no longer getting used and need a redesign. Late game, berserkers without any research buffs are pointless, plus you can only create silver ones (even gold ones would be pointless without research). Berserkers could use the skill tree for spearmen or need an own one.

21.2) Cleo: for human or rakan players the only useful active skill is the ultimate. this one was too strong early game (before the nerf), now it deals close to zero damage (the pull is still good). Cleos first skill does way too little damage as well (compared to Avrils first skill).

21.3) Rufio: the healing skill should get a buff based on his stamina.

21.4) Rose: spider web should have a duration (20-30s) and not last infinite as it is now.

22) Ghost Siege
Players attack a wall and close the app before the fight ends to avoid getting challenged afterwards. The fix seems simple: Leave the avatar on the map for around 2 minutes when closing the game, so that other players still have a chance to challenge them.

23) Hero Chests
23.1) A calendar for the order of the upcoming chests would be highly appreciated.

23.2) The 24h preview of a new chest before you can buy it makes no sense. Extend the timer to buy items for 24h instead or just remove it and start new chests earlier / more often.

23.3) An official comment if Jacques will ever appear inside the chests is appreciated.


I might update this topic in the future, pretty sure I forgot items.
Feedback appreciated!

Best regards
Last edited by sunbow on Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:50 am, edited 23 times in total.
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Re: Sunbows Feedback Topic

Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:00 pm

+1 for
Didnt you forget "nerf mechs" on 10?
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Re: Sunbows Feedback Topic

Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:08 pm

1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10.2 Are all important things that should be prioritized ASAP. 9 isn't urgent.

Everything else has serious merit with possible tweaks and additions/clarifications in some spots.

2.0 - I would say I average more skill points than that. And bottle-necking on XP (especially for players who didn't come from a single-player farm server pre-merge) tends to limit skill point spending more than anything. I'm okay with players who spend less, needing to specialize more carefully with their hero abilities (they need to anyways with XP).

3.0 - There would need to be timed limits of purchases for certain item types, so powerful players couldn't effectively spiral their lead out of control of course. Honour gain would also need to be overhauled overall in light of the guard tower feature. Dwarf and lich garrisons granting several magnitudes more honour for kills than the injuries in human garrisons, for example.

Edit: Re: 11. Warehouses actually have NO effect in combination with the 20% plundering merge feature, until you are actually reduced to the resource total that fits in your warehouse. eg, if you have 4k crystal in warehouse, and 4k crystal total, you will show as nothing plunder-able. But if you have 25k total crystal, 5k will be plunderable regardless of warehouse contribution.

Last edited by Behindtheed on Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sunbows Feedback Topic

Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:21 pm

added 1.9 and 11-13.
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Re: Sunbows Feedback Topic

Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:20 pm

I will pass it to the Devs.
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Re: Sunbows Feedback Topic

Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:59 pm

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Re: Sunbows Feedback Topic

Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:51 pm

Nicely written & detailed list :). The one's I feel are crucial from it are: 1.2 & 7.2. The rest are (to me) mostly nice to have's or should have's (in other words: there is way more important stuff to fix first ;)).

I don't think I'd want: 2, 3 and 4.2. I think it's good for the longevity of a game like this that ability points & skill points are relatively scarce. I don't think it's a good idea to offer skill / ability points at too many places; especially trading honor for them is way too prone to abuse. I'd like to see the option to spend other resources then honor in the black market though. We are seeing people with 10M+ common resources regularly. It is getting kinda ridiculous.

If you want to make this a complete list, I'd add another 4-5 bullets about alliances / alt usage / revenge craziness / etcetera to this list (see my thread from a few days ago for the one's I mean ;)).
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Re: Sunbows Feedback Topic

Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:56 pm

Adjusted the honor shop section (it should be either hero xp OR energy potions and those potions would need to be expensive).
Adjusted the indexes for 4.

Added the shield delay idea from Quantum (14).

Added 15-17

Added 1.10

Added 18

Added 19
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Re: Sunbows Feedback Topic

Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:09 am

3.0) Honor Shop

I agree with 1, and 2 but without implementing those changes this would be bad for the game as proposed.

5.1) Add more hero gear / skill point tabs. Those could cost 1k linari to unlock.

Again if they don't implement 1 and 2 this is a bad change for the game. Having abilities locked behind linari is too much.

10) Rakan
I remember that after human archers and acolytes got buffed there was an announcement, that xbow research tier 11 should get changed from bonus range to more damage. Did not happen yet. Still planned?

Perhaps unneeded as xbows are currently loaned units for pvp and work very very well.

11) Warehouses
They got pretty meaningless late game, a buff would be appreciated.

I dunno, for rare resources they are pretty broken, but for normal rss they are pretty insignificant.

13.1) Hero power counts way too little, could easily get multiplied by 10 or 20.

As long as it had no impact on deployment power, fine. If it did, bronze drops would be insanely easy to pull off.

Otherwise mostly agree with everything else.
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Re: Sunbows Feedback Topic

Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:23 am


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