User avatar
Aluminara
Baron
Baron
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:48 am

Re: Fix the massive imbalance between ftp and p2w

Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:28 am

Just saying it is less p2w doesn't mean it isn't p2w.
Cirilla - Realm 61 - Athaly - Order of Chaos
Aluminara - Realm 39 - Neferak - Free Lancing
 
User avatar
Kirkis
Knight
Knight
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:21 am

Re: Fix the massive imbalance between ftp and p2w

Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:52 am

Aluminara wrote:
Just saying it is less p2w doesn't mean it isn't p2w.

Are there any free multiplayer game that isn't pay-to-win in the App Store?
Citizen of Wales and knower of nothing.
 
User avatar
Kirkis
Knight
Knight
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:21 am

Re: Fix the massive imbalance between ftp and p2w

Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:54 am

Kirkis wrote:
Aluminara wrote:
Just saying it is less p2w doesn't mean it isn't p2w.

Are there any free multiplayer game that aren't pay-to-win in the App Store?
Citizen of Wales and knower of nothing.
 
Parugeon
Knight
Knight
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:02 am

Re: Fix the massive imbalance between ftp and p2w

Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:25 am

Kirkis wrote:
Parugeon wrote:
Kirkis wrote:
This game is really not pay to win.. If you compare the benefits of buying currency with a game like "Clash of Clans" or "Game of War", you will realize how drastic the difference is. If this game was really pay-to-win, the developers would have let you pay linari to upgrade buildings (ex: 1 linari is equal to 1 minute). The packs also do not give you a lot of items and resources so for me, it's not really worth it. If you buy linari then sure you are able to buy troops. However, just like any troops, they can be killed. the worst case scenario would be a player who spends thousands of dollars buying heroes and gold troops and wrecking havoc with that.

Hopefully that type of player isn't on my server.. hopefully.


At the end you literally just summed up how this is easily a p2w game because that is exactly what some people are able to do thanks to there being absolutely no restrictions for money spenders. Clash of clans while it takes money is not anywhere near the imbalances that this game has from whales.

For your mention of if this game was actually p2w you could use linari to boost building construction....... thats exactly what you can do. As it stands now the shop is by far the biggest issue with balance between ftp and p2w. As an example right now the shop adjusts to how much money you invest in it. Mithril chests upgrade to gold and so on and so on. Bundles upgrade in quality aswell depending on how much you spend. While late game this isnt as noticeable due to the long building times and the shop resetting every 8hrs however early game.... well god damn it makes a huge difference there and is more than likely why so many give up after 5-7days. Eg a wallet player in the first day, yes thats right inside 24hrs can go from start lvl to easily castle lvl15-16 if not higher and being 4-5 times the power of everyone else all on the back of $$$. How then is it possible that a ftp player skilled in the game and knows exactly how to build what they needed and focus on that could do that in 5-7 days..........thats 4-6 days that wallet player has had to farm off everyone trying to level and build up. Then when that player has hit that castle 15-16 guess what that wallet player is now lvl21+. If something is not done to limit wallet players spending in the early stages this game will for ever be opening servers every 24hrs like it already does and its player base will be those very wallet players playing by themselves

This game seriously does not even compare to how pay to win clash and the other games are. You cannot pour your linari straight into speed ups and resources as there is a timer in the shop. And this happens in every game, not just this one. In fact, I actually see less big spenders in the game compared to clash or game of war. The developers need to make money somehow and they are already gracious enough because you cannot use linari as speedups as is. There is not one "strategy" game that does not have pay-to-win aspects. Never said this game was not pay-to-win, just said that it was less pay-to-win than other games; and it is obvious.



I wont argue about which game is more p2w than others. While this game may not be close to others in terms of p2w amounts you have to admit that the effect and influence that p2w has in this game can be huge. There are no restrictions on spending (other than an 8hr shop reset) and as the game is real time interaction with other people inside a closed 'box' so to say the effects of a wallet player are far more noticeable and affect the server over all greatly.... sometimes on a scale so great that It literally kills a server in less than 24hrs. I had a housemate that was in a previous server with a bunch of whales and they had capped a giant city inside 3 days......... I dont even want to know how much is required to be spent for that to occur but as they stated they had taken over the server inside a week as others just left server.


End game doesnt ever really seem to be affected as much as development from castle lvl17+ starts to be influenced on the shop reset. The starting stage though has a tremendous impact from money and while I agree money players will always have an edge the should not have access to god mode
 
User avatar
Zinek
Baron
Baron
Posts: 415
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:15 pm

Re: Fix the massive imbalance between ftp and p2w

Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:46 pm

Kirkis wrote:
Parugeon wrote:
Kirkis wrote:
This game is really not pay to win.. If you compare the benefits of buying currency with a game like "Clash of Clans" or "Game of War", you will realize how drastic the difference is. If this game was really pay-to-win, the developers would have let you pay linari to upgrade buildings (ex: 1 linari is equal to 1 minute). The packs also do not give you a lot of items and resources so for me, it's not really worth it. If you buy linari then sure you are able to buy troops. However, just like any troops, they can be killed. the worst case scenario would be a player who spends thousands of dollars buying heroes and gold troops and wrecking havoc with that.

Hopefully that type of player isn't on my server.. hopefully.


At the end you literally just summed up how this is easily a p2w game because that is exactly what some people are able to do thanks to there being absolutely no restrictions for money spenders. Clash of clans while it takes money is not anywhere near the imbalances that this game has from whales.

For your mention of if this game was actually p2w you could use linari to boost building construction....... thats exactly what you can do. As it stands now the shop is by far the biggest issue with balance between ftp and p2w. As an example right now the shop adjusts to how much money you invest in it. Mithril chests upgrade to gold and so on and so on. Bundles upgrade in quality aswell depending on how much you spend. While late game this isnt as noticeable due to the long building times and the shop resetting every 8hrs however early game.... well god damn it makes a huge difference there and is more than likely why so many give up after 5-7days. Eg a wallet player in the first day, yes thats right inside 24hrs can go from start lvl to easily castle lvl15-16 if not higher and being 4-5 times the power of everyone else all on the back of $$$. How then is it possible that a ftp player skilled in the game and knows exactly how to build what they needed and focus on that could do that in 5-7 days..........thats 4-6 days that wallet player has had to farm off everyone trying to level and build up. Then when that player has hit that castle 15-16 guess what that wallet player is now lvl21+. If something is not done to limit wallet players spending in the early stages this game will for ever be opening servers every 24hrs like it already does and its player base will be those very wallet players playing by themselves

This game seriously does not even compare to how pay to win clash and the other games are. You cannot pour your linari straight into speed ups and resources as there is a timer in the shop. And this happens in every game, not just this one. In fact, I actually see less big spenders in the game compared to clash or game of war. The developers need to make money somehow and they are already gracious enough because you cannot use linari as speedups as is. There is not one "strategy" game that does not have pay-to-win aspects. Never said this game was not pay-to-win, just said that it was less pay-to-win than other games; and it is obvious.


You used to be able to dump linari straight into buildings like you can with troop rush. It was in the beta. And removed after we complained about it. Games much fairer now but is still crazy. Removing building rush but offering more troops would be fair imo
My player guide for The Art of Conquest. If you have any questions feel free to ask them. You can find me here or on this forum or on the offical AoC discord just @Zinek

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=13293
 
User avatar
Kirkis
Knight
Knight
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:21 am

Re: Fix the massive imbalance between ftp and p2w

Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:13 pm

Parugeon wrote:
Kirkis wrote:
Parugeon wrote:

At the end you literally just summed up how this is easily a p2w game because that is exactly what some people are able to do thanks to there being absolutely no restrictions for money spenders. Clash of clans while it takes money is not anywhere near the imbalances that this game has from whales.

For your mention of if this game was actually p2w you could use linari to boost building construction....... thats exactly what you can do. As it stands now the shop is by far the biggest issue with balance between ftp and p2w. As an example right now the shop adjusts to how much money you invest in it. Mithril chests upgrade to gold and so on and so on. Bundles upgrade in quality aswell depending on how much you spend. While late game this isnt as noticeable due to the long building times and the shop resetting every 8hrs however early game.... well god damn it makes a huge difference there and is more than likely why so many give up after 5-7days. Eg a wallet player in the first day, yes thats right inside 24hrs can go from start lvl to easily castle lvl15-16 if not higher and being 4-5 times the power of everyone else all on the back of $$$. How then is it possible that a ftp player skilled in the game and knows exactly how to build what they needed and focus on that could do that in 5-7 days..........thats 4-6 days that wallet player has had to farm off everyone trying to level and build up. Then when that player has hit that castle 15-16 guess what that wallet player is now lvl21+. If something is not done to limit wallet players spending in the early stages this game will for ever be opening servers every 24hrs like it already does and its player base will be those very wallet players playing by themselves

This game seriously does not even compare to how pay to win clash and the other games are. You cannot pour your linari straight into speed ups and resources as there is a timer in the shop. And this happens in every game, not just this one. In fact, I actually see less big spenders in the game compared to clash or game of war. The developers need to make money somehow and they are already gracious enough because you cannot use linari as speedups as is. There is not one "strategy" game that does not have pay-to-win aspects. Never said this game was not pay-to-win, just said that it was less pay-to-win than other games; and it is obvious.



I wont argue about which game is more p2w than others. While this game may not be close to others in terms of p2w amounts you have to admit that the effect and influence that p2w has in this game can be huge. There are no restrictions on spending (other than an 8hr shop reset) and as the game is real time interaction with other people inside a closed 'box' so to say the effects of a wallet player are far more noticeable and affect the server over all greatly.... sometimes on a scale so great that It literally kills a server in less than 24hrs. I had a housemate that was in a previous server with a bunch of whales and they had capped a giant city inside 3 days......... I dont even want to know how much is required to be spent for that to occur but as they stated they had taken over the server inside a week as others just left server.


End game doesnt ever really seem to be affected as much as development from castle lvl17+ starts to be influenced on the shop reset. The starting stage though has a tremendous impact from money and while I agree money players will always have an edge the should not have access to god mode

Fair enough, you won me over. However I doubt anything will change. Creating games is a business for the developers, not a hobby. The same can be said for all (or most) game developers today.
Citizen of Wales and knower of nothing.
 
User avatar
Kirkis
Knight
Knight
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:21 am

Re: Fix the massive imbalance between ftp and p2w

Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:15 pm

Zinek wrote:
Kirkis wrote:
Parugeon wrote:

At the end you literally just summed up how this is easily a p2w game because that is exactly what some people are able to do thanks to there being absolutely no restrictions for money spenders. Clash of clans while it takes money is not anywhere near the imbalances that this game has from whales.

For your mention of if this game was actually p2w you could use linari to boost building construction....... thats exactly what you can do. As it stands now the shop is by far the biggest issue with balance between ftp and p2w. As an example right now the shop adjusts to how much money you invest in it. Mithril chests upgrade to gold and so on and so on. Bundles upgrade in quality aswell depending on how much you spend. While late game this isnt as noticeable due to the long building times and the shop resetting every 8hrs however early game.... well god damn it makes a huge difference there and is more than likely why so many give up after 5-7days. Eg a wallet player in the first day, yes thats right inside 24hrs can go from start lvl to easily castle lvl15-16 if not higher and being 4-5 times the power of everyone else all on the back of $$$. How then is it possible that a ftp player skilled in the game and knows exactly how to build what they needed and focus on that could do that in 5-7 days..........thats 4-6 days that wallet player has had to farm off everyone trying to level and build up. Then when that player has hit that castle 15-16 guess what that wallet player is now lvl21+. If something is not done to limit wallet players spending in the early stages this game will for ever be opening servers every 24hrs like it already does and its player base will be those very wallet players playing by themselves

This game seriously does not even compare to how pay to win clash and the other games are. You cannot pour your linari straight into speed ups and resources as there is a timer in the shop. And this happens in every game, not just this one. In fact, I actually see less big spenders in the game compared to clash or game of war. The developers need to make money somehow and they are already gracious enough because you cannot use linari as speedups as is. There is not one "strategy" game that does not have pay-to-win aspects. Never said this game was not pay-to-win, just said that it was less pay-to-win than other games; and it is obvious.


You used to be able to dump linari straight into buildings like you can with troop rush. It was in the beta. And removed after we complained about it. Games much fairer now but is still crazy. Removing building rush but offering more troops would be fair imo

Removing building rush and giving us more troop population slots would not benefit the developers one bit. There has to be sacrifice on both sides in order to reach a conclusion. The sacrifice on their side is a ton of revenue generated by players buying building rush. We lose the building rush but gain population. Even as a consumer, it seems a tad bit one-sided to me.
Citizen of Wales and knower of nothing.
 
User avatar
Zinek
Baron
Baron
Posts: 415
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:15 pm

Re: Fix the massive imbalance between ftp and p2w

Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:06 pm

No I mean butable units in shop not supply cap
My player guide for The Art of Conquest. If you have any questions feel free to ask them. You can find me here or on this forum or on the offical AoC discord just @Zinek

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=13293
 
Parugeon
Knight
Knight
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:02 am

Re: Fix the massive imbalance between ftp and p2w

Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:40 pm

Kirkis wrote:
Removing building rush and giving us more troop population slots would not benefit the developers one bit. There has to be sacrifice on both sides in order to reach a conclusion. The sacrifice on their side is a ton of revenue generated by players buying building rush. We lose the building rush but gain population. Even as a consumer, it seems a tad bit one-sided to me.


I dont feel it should be removed as that would impact negatively on new players to the server however if its use could be restricted in the starting periods of a new server giving everyone a fairer initial start it would go along way. E.g. first 7 days of server the only available speed ups are the 4x30min ones.

Removing the ability to purchase troops of a quality and lvl higher than they can build would also greatly help this. This would include ones found in purchased chests aswell
 
User avatar
Kirkis
Knight
Knight
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:21 am

Re: Fix the massive imbalance between ftp and p2w

Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:12 pm

Parugeon wrote:
Kirkis wrote:
Removing building rush and giving us more troop population slots would not benefit the developers one bit. There has to be sacrifice on both sides in order to reach a conclusion. The sacrifice on their side is a ton of revenue generated by players buying building rush. We lose the building rush but gain population. Even as a consumer, it seems a tad bit one-sided to me.


I dont feel it should be removed as that would impact negatively on new players to the server however if its use could be restricted in the starting periods of a new server giving everyone a fairer initial start it would go along way. E.g. first 7 days of server the only available speed ups are the 4x30min ones.

Removing the ability to purchase troops of a quality and lvl higher than they can build would also greatly help this. This would include ones found in purchased chests aswell

Giving players the ability to purchase units higher than they can train gives them a larger incentive to purchase the troops rather than troops of equal level. The same idea also applies to chests. Because chests have an aura on uncertainty that will drive players away from purchasing them, you need a satisfying enough reward to draw them in. Troops and ability cards are great options.

Now about the speedups.. the initial beginning of a server is the perfect time to capitalize on a player's drive to become the strongest; or strong in a certain amount of time. This is why starter packs are offered in many games (although I forgot if there was one of this particular game). Spending tends to occur most at the beginning because you see that the players around you are weak and begin to think things like, "wow, if I had a little boost I could dominate this server!" Well, too bad a lot of people think like this. Therefor, after blowing away all that dinero, you will feel an urge to spend more because you are losing your position as a top player. And as this carries on and on, hundreds and thousands of hours of speedups are bought while the developers laugh and bathe in champagne.

I hope this makes sense.. its a business, and they're doing quite a fine job.
Citizen of Wales and knower of nothing.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests