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Repair for Dwarf Mech Troops/Lich vs Mech

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:32 am
by Kirkis
Recently, I attacked a player and my gold tanks were killed. My gold troop count was also over the limit so I could not build my tanks back. There was no way to get my tanks back because you cannot "heal" mechanical troops (which is why I am hoping that this is the reason you cannot heal mechanical troops- it's not the right word to use).

This is why I am suggesting a "repair" function where dwarfs are able to repair their mech troops instead of healing them.

Think about it this way.. if another race were to attack someone their gold troops would get injured and they can heal. So if they were over the limit they can just heal their troops back. Another scenario to think about is if a lich user were to attack a dwarf user. Lich does very well against dwarfs so even if you are a dwarf and you win, chances are that you will lose some mech units and your opponent will still have their higher level troops to be able to heal and use again. So yes, Lich is overpowered against dwarf (which I have said a thousand times) and should be and needs to be fixed, tweaked, and repaired.

EDIT: I am not completely sure, however if you are over the cap and you heal gold units in your hospital you can go over the cap to where you originally started. Someone please comment down below if this is fact or fiction.

EDIT:Decreae power of spiders. Poison is not meant to kill in 2 shots.

(If I have stated anything incorrectly, someone please correct me down below.)

Re: Repair for Dwarf Mech Troops/Lich vs Mech

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:45 am
by Parugeon
I myself have to agree but there is already a post regarding this already. Salvageable I think was subject

Re: Repair for Dwarf Mech Troops/Lich vs Mech

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:53 am
by Kirkis
Parugeon wrote:
I myself have to agree but there is already a post regarding this already. Salvageable I think was subject

What it means to salvage is to take a piece of junk and salvage it to get whatever is left out of it. And based on my theory on why we cannot heal mech troops, the developers will take "salvage" as its literal definition and will make it so we get a fraction of our materials back out of it. I did not read that topic but if I had to make a guess, I would guess that this was the creators suggestion as well, or else he would've suggested the "repair" function which I am suggesting at this very moment.

Re: Repair for Dwarf Mech Troops/Lich vs Mech

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:38 am
by Apollyon
This is part of a larger problem of the unit cap. Its great in theory and concept, but it doesnt mesh at all with the realities of other game mechanics systems such as garrisons, squad limitations, and in this case replenishing armies. I would never advocate removing the cap - but there needs to be some catches built into it to allow for proper use of game mechanics without having to find difficult workarounds.

As I have pointed out in another thread - the unit cap prevents players from adding units to the garrison without first sending units there that they may not want to send there. For example, if you have two units of templars and are at or over cap - you are forced to send one to the garrison before you can train any archers to send there even though you want to run both units of templars in your fighting force.

Likewise in order to maximize your army, you need to load up all your heros with command equipment, then train your army, then switch back to their normal loadouts.

Also, the unit cap cuts off squads at non-even rates. If you are have 6 units available in gold - what possible squad can you put together for that? You cant mix your gold and silver units into the same squad (which would be awesome BTW, and prevent this) - so its effectively useless until you have enough cap space for an entire or close to an entire squad.

Re: Repair for Dwarf Mech Troops/Lich vs Mech

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:41 am
by Parugeon
Kirkis wrote:
Parugeon wrote:
I myself have to agree but there is already a post regarding this already. Salvageable I think was subject

What it means to salvage is to take a piece of junk and salvage it to get whatever is left out of it. And based on my theory on why we cannot heal mech troops, the developers will take "salvage" as its literal definition and will make it so we get a fraction of our materials back out of it. I did not read that topic but if I had to make a guess, I would guess that this was the creators suggestion as well, or else he would've suggested the "repair" function which I am suggesting at this very moment.


Yes you are correct that is what they were asking for but at the tine was easier to add to than start a new topic. So here I will add it to your topic as it relates to both lich and dwarf.


Parugeon wrote:
After playing dwarf now and seeing just how exspensive mech units are I have to agree that something needs to be done. I mean honestly you have a dwarf race that is technologically advanced but they cant repair mechs that they built? I like the idea of a "Salvage Yard" where you like the hospital repair mechs. Free of charge however to keep it fair they could take 1.5 times as long to heal as they would to create. This alone would bring some balance to each races resource consumption and usability



Honestly I think lich should also recieve a new building eg. Graveyard where all undead resurrect. Its stupid that one race gets everything healed so can experiment with it all for best combos while 1 race is able to do same but everything good dies and needs to be rebuilt and the other where only one option is viable because everything else dies and costs a bunch.

Dwarf mechs dont need stats reduced as they are already low compared to other units of there role.

As an example lvl4 silver scorpions with 0 research upgrades costs less resources then mechwalkers have a health pool of 4800 and an attack of 3100 and do huge dmg to mechs and bonus to normal troops all while having the ability to be healed..... compare that to and sorry forgot what standard level4 mechwalkers health was but at lvl6 research its 8798 health with an attack of 1100 has a buff against ranged dmg and can do bonus dmg to giant troops and normal troops while also doing a small amount of aoe dmg how ever is destroyed permanently if it goes down in battle.......

Kinda makes everything a bit lop sided yeh. Think it would be nice if they changed catapults to a construct troop and made everything else be able to be revived. This would increase activity between players because that huge unfair risk would be lifted and would allow more diversity being used among players as well as reducing the need to buff or nerf troops as much

Re: Repair for Dwarf Mech Troops/Lich vs Mech

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:49 am
by Kirkis
Parugeon wrote:
Kirkis wrote:
Parugeon wrote:
I myself have to agree but there is already a post regarding this already. Salvageable I think was subject

What it means to salvage is to take a piece of junk and salvage it to get whatever is left out of it. And based on my theory on why we cannot heal mech troops, the developers will take "salvage" as its literal definition and will make it so we get a fraction of our materials back out of it. I did not read that topic but if I had to make a guess, I would guess that this was the creators suggestion as well, or else he would've suggested the "repair" function which I am suggesting at this very moment.


Yes you are correct that is what they were asking for but at the tine was easier to add to than start a new topic. So here I will add it to your topic as it relates to both lich and dwarf.


Parugeon wrote:
After playing dwarf now and seeing just how exspensive mech units are I have to agree that something needs to be done. I mean honestly you have a dwarf race that is technologically advanced but they cant repair mechs that they built? I like the idea of a "Salvage Yard" where you like the hospital repair mechs. Free of charge however to keep it fair they could take 1.5 times as long to heal as they would to create. This alone would bring some balance to each races resource consumption and usability



Honestly I think lich should also recieve a new building eg. Graveyard where all undead resurrect. Its stupid that one race gets everything healed so can experiment with it all for best combos while 1 race is able to do same but everything good dies and needs to be rebuilt and the other where only one option is viable because everything else dies and costs a bunch.

Dwarf mechs dont need stats reduced as they are already low compared to other units of there role.

As an example lvl4 silver scorpions with 0 research upgrades costs less resources then mechwalkers have a health pool of 4800 and an attack of 3100 and do huge dmg to mechs and bonus to normal troops all while having the ability to be healed..... compare that to and sorry forgot what standard level4 mechwalkers health was but at lvl6 research its 8798 health with an attack of 1100 has a buff against ranged dmg and can do bonus dmg to giant troops and normal troops while also doing a small amount of aoe dmg how ever is destroyed permanently if it goes down in battle.......

Kinda makes everything a bit lop sided yeh. Think it would be nice if they changed catapults to a construct troop and made everything else be able to be revived. This would increase activity between players because that huge unfair risk would be lifted and would allow more diversity being used among players as well as reducing the need to buff or nerf troops as much

Lich is already overpowered; I do not want to see anything added to them. However, thank you for your understanding. You explained it more in depth than me on the Lich vs. Dwarf issue. As a dwarf, our best units are indeed the tanks and robots. Both of these can be killed easily by scorpions and you will almost always end up with some losses. Even if it is your home territory and your wounded rate is 100%, your troops will still die which does not make much sense. Due to this, I do not believe that dwarf is a good competitive option later in the game when you start to get gold units. Sure, dwarf is powerful and all, but when you constantly have to spend resources rebuilding the troops (considering how expensive mechanical troops are) there's a point where you realize the error in the system.

Re: Repair for Dwarf Mech Troops/Lich vs Mech

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:59 am
by Kirkis
Apollyon wrote:
This is part of a larger problem of the unit cap. Its great in theory and concept, but it doesnt mesh at all with the realities of other game mechanics systems such as garrisons, squad limitations, and in this case replenishing armies. I would never advocate removing the cap - but there needs to be some catches built into it to allow for proper use of game mechanics without having to find difficult workarounds.

As I have pointed out in another thread - the unit cap prevents players from adding units to the garrison without first sending units there that they may not want to send there. For example, if you have two units of templars and are at or over cap - you are forced to send one to the garrison before you can train any archers to send there even though you want to run both units of templars in your fighting force.

Likewise in order to maximize your army, you need to load up all your heros with command equipment, then train your army, then switch back to their normal loadouts.

Also, the unit cap cuts off squads at non-even rates. If you are have 6 units available in gold - what possible squad can you put together for that? You cant mix your gold and silver units into the same squad (which would be awesome BTW, and prevent this) - so its effectively useless until you have enough cap space for an entire or close to an entire squad.

Thank you for pointing this out.

I would like to once again bring this back to what you have to say in relation to the dwarf race. Our mechanical units cost a large amount of population space as well. A set of robots takes up 25 (population) while a tank takes up 20. Currently, I can support a population of 60 gold troops. This presents a problem if I want to even train a tank as my cap is currently at 49/60 which means I need to increase my bronze troop count by a large sum to be able to train a tank. Furthermore, being a city lord, the only way I can increase it would be to upgrade my recruit center, pay for more heroes, or level up avalons skill.

Re: Repair for Dwarf Mech Troops/Lich vs Mech

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:12 am
by Kirkis
Bump, I believe this is an important topic and would like to hear more thoughts and opinions.

Re: Repair for Dwarf Mech Troops/Lich vs Mech

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:46 am
by Parugeon
One extra thing I would also like to point out for the reasoning of dwarf are better at sieges and destroying castles......... um mabey but not really.

With the new changes to Grimms a lich with only 2 lines of research, (scorps and spiders) to silver can then focus catapults until silver and quite literally wipe anyone other then a whale in 5-6 days...... if not sooner.

So saying they perma dead because they are op at looting kinda loses all relativity veru quickly when you think how many lines of research you need to do before you are better at siege than everyone else

Re: Repair for Dwarf Mech Troops/Lich vs Mech

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:17 pm
by Kirkis
Parugeon wrote:
One extra thing I would also like to point out for the reasoning of dwarf are better at sieges and destroying castles......... um mabey but not really.

With the new changes to Grimms a lich with only 2 lines of research, (scorps and spiders) to silver can then focus catapults until silver and quite literally wipe anyone other then a whale in 5-6 days...... if not sooner.

So saying they perma dead because they are op at looting kinda loses all relativity veru quickly when you think how many lines of research you need to do before you are better at siege than everyone else

So basically you are saying that dwarfs are getting weaker as lich is getting stronger? Hmm.. that sounds awfully familiar.

It sounds like everyone feels like dwarfs are strong enough right now. All that needs to happen is that lichs need a nerf.

Maybe we could start an Anti-Lich club? You can be the Co-Leader and I will be a leader. Our motto could be "We can promise that world but we promise a good time".

(joking)