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HomerSimpson
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Re: Virion Nerf

Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:40 am

Lolix wrote:
Not concerned with early-mid game in which dwarves are still very relevant. 99% of dwarf players on my merged server are using a human front line. Swords. If the fact that the only used frontline is swords and it takes if not 0 close to 0 casualties against a top tier tower I don't know what else could call for a nerf. The only reason people use dwarf at all is because of bombardiers. Considering that archers are not far behind though and humans have a much more balanced unit choice I don't see how any other race even comes close to comparing to human.

As it is the scales are heavily tipped towards humans but if that means that they can not be nerfed because the majority of the population will whine about it then they might as well remove the other races because they are not even close to being competent enough to start buffing units from the other three races appropriately.


I agree with what you said and I too was initially disappointed when learning of the decision to not nerf Virion's resurrection, but it appears they made that choice because it had little affect on how strong swords are atm. So, hopefully they will find the right solution to give the game a little more balance.
 
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Chillblaze
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Re: Virion Nerf

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:05 am

HomerSimpson wrote:
So, hopefully they will find the right solution to give the game a little more balance.


The problem could be heals beign too long and double heal vega/turtle. Increased Hero passives also have impact. Or army cap because only humans can afford 2-3 or full golds front stacks while rest of the races focus on spiders, xbows, turtles, blasters.... Its rare to see 5 dunelords front , 4 monks or 4 gold mech.
I don't make flawless raids with my Virion and maxed swords...may be its the stupid Jacques and ridicilous injury ratios on Elena....
Its crap on top of more crap and the only solution they are looking for is how to force us into spending more .
 
Zer0C001
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Re: Virion Nerf

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:41 pm

HomerSimpson wrote:
Zer0C001 wrote:
...dwarf ... are considerably stronger in pvp then humans.


I disagree with this. Everything else being equal, at most, dwarves are slightly stronger in PvP than humans. But that isn't even what's relevant. Everything else is not equal. PvP is almost always decided by heroes (specifically their stats) and borrowed gold troops. Now, taking that into account, ask yourself, is it smart to play dwarf, given they have to use a troop with 100 percent death rate in the event of a loss, even when fighting within their own kingdom? The disparity in risk is comical. Also, if you think their sieging advantage compensates them for this, take a look at the recent honor events on mature and/or merged servers. 90-95 percent of the top performers were human lol.

Of course pvp comes down to stats/heroes but lets review dwarf tanks t12 research massive aoe with no ammo loss and tons of hp. Gold mecs tanky af with high crit hit aoe dmg 65% resistance to range dmg immune to magic and poison. swordsmen highly susceptible to aoe dmg with considerably lower hp and low dps. and no magic/poison resistance with 50% projectile block. Cavalry no xtra resistance much lower hp then mec and tank and only aoe on initial charge(its the only unit thats viable for humans vs bombers + turtle strat and even then barely) so you need gold cap for cavalry + swords(for siege) + archers. You really can't compare front line gold human units to gold mecs. So if nerf swords comes then forget siege at all 90% of servers will be dwarf with 10% rakkan to pvp dwarf/alts till they nerf that too. And no dwarf garrison will get sieged because of op snipers so rip the game for good this time. But guess thats what dwarf players would want anyways till everyone is dwarf and theres no one to siege anymore.
 
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Re: Virion Nerf

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:02 pm

Your calculations work fine on paper but they just don't translate to what people can and are using. You insist on dwarf units being strong but the truth is that those who play dwarf do so exclusively due to bombardiers being strong. The same dwarf players don't use gold mechs as tanks but use gold swords because they are far better due to the fact that they just don't die and if some do you can ress some 30-40 at a time. Mechs not only die with relative ease and they cost a hell of a lot more to rebuild. You HAVE to rebuild. There is no ress. Not seen gold tanks used in ages. Let alone ones at max lvl where you risk losing what? 5-6k blood diamonds? Forget the lvl 12 research, tanks are way down the line in priority compared to mechs and blasters. Few enough people have 12 completed and those that do have not gone all out on tanks.

I said it before and I'll say it again. In old and merged servers there is a great majority of people playing human. There is a reason for that. Hell even those that do not play human loan gold swords to duel and siege.
 
BorrowKing
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Re: Virion Nerf

Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:18 am

Zer0C001 wrote:
HomerSimpson wrote:
Zer0C001 wrote:
...dwarf ... are considerably stronger in pvp then humans.


I disagree with this. Everything else being equal, at most, dwarves are slightly stronger in PvP than humans. But that isn't even what's relevant. Everything else is not equal. PvP is almost always decided by heroes (specifically their stats) and borrowed gold troops. Now, taking that into account, ask yourself, is it smart to play dwarf, given they have to use a troop with 100 percent death rate in the event of a loss, even when fighting within their own kingdom? The disparity in risk is comical. Also, if you think their sieging advantage compensates them for this, take a look at the recent honor events on mature and/or merged servers. 90-95 percent of the top performers were human lol.

Of course pvp comes down to stats/heroes but lets review dwarf tanks t12 research massive aoe with no ammo loss and tons of hp. Gold mecs tanky af with high crit hit aoe dmg 65% resistance to range dmg immune to magic and poison. swordsmen highly susceptible to aoe dmg with considerably lower hp and low dps. and no magic/poison resistance with 50% projectile block. Cavalry no xtra resistance much lower hp then mec and tank and only aoe on initial charge(its the only unit thats viable for humans vs bombers + turtle strat and even then barely) so you need gold cap for cavalry + swords(for siege) + archers. You really can't compare front line gold human units to gold mecs. So if nerf swords comes then forget siege at all 90% of servers will be dwarf with 10% rakkan to pvp dwarf/alts till they nerf that too. And no dwarf garrison will get sieged because of op snipers so rip the game for good this time. But guess thats what dwarf players would want anyways till everyone is dwarf and theres no one to siege anymore.


Snipers are by far the WORST wall units in the game against the current sword meta since not only can ressurect bring back 30-40 swords but also they have EVADE and snipers have ammo as well as slow ass attack speed. Once dwarf walls are out of mechs they become a cakewalk as miners can’t tank at all. I am lvl 40 dwarf and a f2p person with patron and first hero and I siege dwarf towers for pure honour so I can craft items and dwarf even on tundra is much easier than lich on grass since spiders and mummies hurt swords while dwarf does nothing. And while you say mechs have high ass damage resistance you forget the fact that they are slow as hell and still can be killed easily by archers/horse or blasters since their range resist doesn’t affect splash damage. And losing a group of lvl 13 mechs with t12 research is 7.3k mithril which won’t matter to whales and gold sieges but the 2+days to remake a single set will be hard to replace for those without a month of rush from being a whale.
 
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Kryton13
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Re: Virion Nerf

Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:50 am

They won't nerf Viron - too many whales like to abuse how broken op he is.
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PrinceCharming
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Re: Virion Nerf

Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:38 am

Kryton13 wrote:
They won't nerf Viron - too many whales like to abuse how broken op he is.

Kind of weird what you say.
Why should something be broken and overpowered if you mastered to do, for example, flawless attacks with it :D
It is just possible, and there are other tactics like this, but people just didn't figure it out yet.
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neuro
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Re: Virion Nerf

Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:04 am

The snipers are very good. All troops counteract other troops. For example:

A lich can not attack with spiders and scorpions without dying to a dwarf city.

A human with horses and archers, can not attack a dwarf city without dying.

Snipers are specialists in killing troops with small units, except for mechs.

The function of a dwarf is to besiege cities, not to defend oneself.

The investigation times are very long and you can not have all the troops investigated at the highest level.

Also the turtle helps to make the game more destructible
 
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Destination
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Re: Virion Nerf

Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:08 am

Lolix wrote:
Your calculations work fine on paper but they just don't translate to what people can and are using. You insist on dwarf units being strong but the truth is that those who play dwarf do so exclusively due to bombardiers being strong. The same dwarf players don't use gold mechs as tanks but use gold swords because they are far better due to the fact that they just don't die and if some do you can ress some 30-40 at a time. Mechs not only die with relative ease and they cost a hell of a lot more to rebuild. You HAVE to rebuild. There is no ress. Not seen gold tanks used in ages. Let alone ones at max lvl where you risk losing what? 5-6k blood diamonds? Forget the lvl 12 research, tanks are way down the line in priority compared to mechs and blasters. Few enough people have 12 completed and those that do have not gone all out on tanks.

I said it before and I'll say it again. In old and merged servers there is a great majority of people playing human. There is a reason for that. Hell even those that do not play human loan gold swords to duel and siege.

The stronges pvper on my server is using Mechs and Tanks, and he is going flawless almost everytime. i dont think i ever saw him lose more than 4 mechs in a fight.
 
Zer0C001
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Re: Virion Nerf

Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:20 pm

Destination wrote:
Lolix wrote:
Your calculations work fine on paper but they just don't translate to what people can and are using. You insist on dwarf units being strong but the truth is that those who play dwarf do so exclusively due to bombardiers being strong. The same dwarf players don't use gold mechs as tanks but use gold swords because they are far better due to the fact that they just don't die and if some do you can ress some 30-40 at a time. Mechs not only die with relative ease and they cost a hell of a lot more to rebuild. You HAVE to rebuild. There is no ress. Not seen gold tanks used in ages. Let alone ones at max lvl where you risk losing what? 5-6k blood diamonds? Forget the lvl 12 research, tanks are way down the line in priority compared to mechs and blasters. Few enough people have 12 completed and those that do have not gone all out on tanks.

I said it before and I'll say it again. In old and merged servers there is a great majority of people playing human. There is a reason for that. Hell even those that do not play human loan gold swords to duel and siege.

The stronges pvper on my server is using Mechs and Tanks, and he is going flawless almost everytime. i dont think i ever saw him lose more than 4 mechs in a fight.

Thats what i'm talking about maxed dwarf troops are extremely powerful and rarely die problem is most players use silver mecs and only focus bombers and ignore tanks. But we have dwarf players on our merge that crushes nearly any garrison with almost no casualties. Other top player tried multiple times to siege him with swords could not even scratch his garrison. Both have very high research. If people don't use tanks thats thier loss tanks get targeted for backline sniping but high hp + no headshot means they absord a lot of backline snipe while 0% ammo depletion gives them extremely high dps that doesnt run out. Also majority of dwarf players have very low research in snipers. Just saying dwarf can also be an extremely strong race just as good as human swords strat. With the one exception of sieging other dwarf. And better in void and pvp.

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