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Chillblaze
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Re: Dwarves are in a bad spot (truly, this time)

Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:36 pm

Indeed full mech front is rare and last i saw it the guy lost 1-2 mech in 13s vs 11s siege. With 30% damage reduction / 20% evade chance / + 91% injury ratio / 20% grass bonus swords will be alright even with Virion nerf. All races/research and heroes/skills and field bonuses need extensive and detailed changes for overall balancing... There is little we can suggest but can only break features without knowing raw stats and the pseudorandom sequences. Devs do not seem to bother either... they just look at how many vip chats whine of this or that and try to keep the sponsors happy...

Bobby wrote:
They need to reduce mech power if they want to add something like that


I do not see any problems with 20% Salvage(instead of Brutal efficiency) as its not really too much. Dwarf will still have to grind the rest and returning a bit will give them morale boost to do so.
I do not know if you realise it but its almost the same research that almost nobody uses... It will give them defensive bonus but will take away the offensive one (building mech cheaper). ;)
 
neuro
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Re: Dwarves are in a bad spot (truly, this time)

Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:41 pm

I have seen some investigations of players that have been easily destroyed and the problem is that their defensive army is not as strong as their attack. Humans, for example, place many swordsmen when spearmen have greater defensive characteristics than swordsmen. The time in this game is the biggest problem. There is a lot of research difference between a player who has recently reached level 40 and another player who has 2 or 3 months with level 40. If the game lasts, everything will be equal.
 
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Chillblaze
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Re: Dwarves are in a bad spot (truly, this time)

Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:59 pm

Defensive research/land buff its not even close to hero passives or even offensive research. Mech activate shield vs pikes, rockets and swords melt them(templars in that garrison didnt help either), spiders poison them easier...even Templars with Elena buff go right thru at 13vs13. Evade is only 10% and no shields research or hero boosts...Swords get stuck on eachother and make nice blockade especially if garrison deploys 8. Priests get disable by Cleo and i do not know if they can heal anything in front line on time even if maxed.
OP is talking about the late game here and at equal 40s dwarf situation...no unit can protect you and this applies to all races with lich having upper hand right now (except purges). So basicly its whoever attack first which in most scenarios is strong vs weak. Construction, research, army cap gaps are bogus and not even worth discussing. In this logical order dwarfs loose too much to recover compared to other races who only have to heal instead of spend rush on heal and rush/resources on re-building. Salvage research makes sense and like I stated above is good trade-off...
Last edited by Chillblaze on Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
neuro
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Re: Dwarves are in a bad spot (truly, this time)

Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:12 pm

Scorpions resist damage from rockets, swordsmen, and turtle bonuses. They end up dying, but it does not come free. With gold mechs I have not tried it yet, but in theory scorpions are specialists in killing mechanized units. Lich attacks with what he defends.
 
Upcycler
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Re: Dwarves are in a bad spot (truly, this time)

Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:27 am

i looked here to see what to do with mithril as dwarf, I want to move out of capital but if i dont spend my mithril i will lose it all and if i do spend it what do i spend it on? I'm not strong i am 87th in kingdom and 312th in realm so I am weak, if i build gold mech they will all die soon as any whale hit me. The only solution i see HERE is swap to human, but i have a nice Jacq and i want to stay dwarf
 
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PrinceCharming
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Re: Dwarves are in a bad spot (truly, this time)

Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:55 am

Upcycler wrote:
i looked here to see what to do with mithril as dwarf, I want to move out of capital but if i dont spend my mithril i will lose it all and if i do spend it what do i spend it on? I'm not strong i am 87th in kingdom and 312th in realm so I am weak, if i build gold mech they will all die soon as any whale hit me. The only solution i see HERE is swap to human, but i have a nice Jacq and i want to stay dwarf

I suggest you to start attacking other strongholds, at least guard towers of lower levels.
You will see how fast you can spend your mithrill.

And will never ask where to spend it.
Passive game is not for dwarfs. They are the best at siege and plunder.
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Bobby
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Re: Dwarves are in a bad spot (truly, this time)

Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:11 am

Lolix wrote:
I would agree if I saw dozens of players using a full gold mech frontline. Truth is I dOn't loan 20 gold mechs and 99% of players don't either. What is predominantly used is silver mechs which is why I compared them to scorpions. There are a few players I have seen using gold mechs and indeed they don't die. However probably 95% of duels and sieges I have seen carried out by dwarves feature loaned gold swordsmen and not mechs. I am talking about mechs used in a dwarf formation without huge loaning taken into consideration. There is no point in arguing that a unit is good if fielding it demands attacking with 220 gold cap. I doubt an attack with a full gold frontline and silvers only in the back would get very far. Dwarves are forced into using blasters leaving little space for mechs in the front similarly to how lich uses predominantly gold spiders.

If you really want to enter a discussion that takes into account loaning 100+ worth of gold cap every time then why bother with any changes at all? Fact is that swords that are getting a nerf through virion and not mechs because swords is what is used almost exclusively and not mechs.

I do realise we are talking about two slightly different aspects of the game though. Yours applying to a very limited amount of players that are able to do so through an unlimited amount of loaning. Why not allow the salvage/injury mechanic to apply to bronze and silver then? That way semi independent players can still field a decent front line and players who loan heavily remain untouched.

Really its not hard to get a full gold frontline and with gold rockets anymore with the new divine item that gives +13 command and 30 army cap
 
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Re: Dwarves are in a bad spot (truly, this time)

Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:27 am

As I said, a full gold frontline with 6-7 rockets in the back requires 212 gold cap. Not seem that many players run around with that cap. Most of the top players can't reach that either. The weapon is good, I am building a number of them myself but it's 2 cap per weapon.. how many can one build 5? 6?

I find it interesting that almost every complaint revolves around one feature, lonaning. Which enables pure gold armies which were probably not intended to be so easy to obtain. But instead of complaining about the source problem people try to balance the game by suggesting unit nerfs around it when it would be so much easier to limit loaning and therefore giving people much less access to gold which is supposed to be somewhat limited.

It seems they intend to nerf the loan mechanism anyway which sort of confirms what I said. You can't balance a whole game around one broken feature which causes imbalance itself because it allows people to avoid the natural weaknesses built into each race.

There are a hell of a lot of units that need looking at and I think they should start seriously balancing each race independently. If you do that taking into consideration that you can just borrow any troop you want in the game instead of using your own then you get one mess of a game.
 
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PrinceCharming
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Re: Dwarves are in a bad spot (truly, this time)

Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:38 pm

Limited loaning outside of the void would be nice.
Just make it the same as in the void - maximum 3.
That still would be fine, to get 3 groups of different troops.
As I dwarf, I would go for a turtle, and 2 sets of gold mechs, leaving the main account with all gold blasters.
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neuro
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Re: Dwarves are in a bad spot (truly, this time)

Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:55 pm

A dwarf attacking my city without desert technology

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Another attack with swordsmen and rockets


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