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Re: Cheat bombarders ability open fire.

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:31 am
by PrinceCharming
The spread is 20%, your 40% is a little too wrong :)
Because normal is normal and it = 0%

Re: Cheat bombarders ability open fire.

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:38 pm
by Lolix
---> What Prince said. On enemy terrain you revert to 100% instead of 120%. Not 80%. The terrain bonus always confers 20% bonus.

From what I have seen 90% of the duels happen on enemy terrain so grassland in this specific case. These people are baiting players on their own terrain and then crushing them with close to 0 loss anyway.

The stat bonus is indeed the main buff but that would mean that it's useless to talk about any troops composition. Fact is that they are winning with this comp and not another with few problems and mostly no losses. And not on tundra ground.

Re: Cheat bombarders ability open fire.

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:30 pm
by PrinceCharming
Just as a little observation based on personal experience:
1. If a person has huge stats difference (30% to everything over the opponent) - he usually wins, and the winner gets very little loss. Even when it is human against dwarf (human with higher stats) - fire off is just a mosquito bite.

2. With almost equal stats, dwarf will win human and lich. But will lose to rakkan. And dwarf vs dwarf is determined by the set up, using right abilities, timings etc.

3. If you fight on a friendly territory (with research bonus +20%) with someone who doesn't have this buff - you will also likely to win. But since rakkan race introduced turtle's buff, and people use it now in their army even having another race - it can always balance you, in case your opponent has no turtle. If both of you use turtle - high chance to win for those who get territory buff, and fire off is not a decisive option.

The problem is highly obvious on tier 12-13 battles. Because troops have enormous HP, damage and attack speed, plus heroes and their auras take the important place too. Another 20% addition from area buff, 30% addition from stats difference, and 20% buff for 15 seconds (which is enough for PVP) from turtle - is just insane.
Stats difference should be scaled by game devs once again. That is where the troop composition, strength and skills of heroes, combinations of all of the strategy loses its meaning and definition.

Re: Cheat bombarders ability open fire.

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:28 pm
by neuro
A default lich wins a dwarf. The problem is that all lichs specialize in killing human troops and not mechanized troops. Also jaq does a lot of damage per second and improves the mechs. If a lich builds gold scorpions instead of spiders, he will not be able to overcome the missions of the void. The same goes for humans. Horses are killers of mechs, but if you sacrifice your swordsmen, you lose the ability to besiege cities.

Also a dwarf uses less army cap than a lich to attack. A rocket 2 of army cap by 4 of each scorpion. A spider 15 by 5 of each silver mech ... It's what you have to play in a Chinese game.

Re: Cheat bombarders ability open fire.

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:14 pm
by Lolix
It's roughly similar though no?
Mech is 25 per unit while scorpions are 28
Spiders are 15 while bombardiers are 16

Re: Cheat bombarders ability open fire.

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:49 pm
by Behindtheed
PrinceCharming wrote:
The spread is 20%, your 40% is a little too wrong :)
Because normal is normal and it = 0%



No. If most fights happen on grassland (majority of map, as I stipulated), the difference going to tundra vs dwarf, is you losing 20% everything, while enemy gains 20% everything. That is effectively 40%.

Re: Cheat bombarders ability open fire.

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:51 pm
by Behindtheed
PrinceCharming wrote:
The problem is highly obvious on tier 12-13 battles. Because troops have enormous HP, damage and attack speed, plus heroes and their auras take the important place too. Another 20% addition from area buff, 30% addition from stats difference, and 20% buff for 15 seconds (which is enough for PVP) from turtle - is just insane.
Stats difference should be scaled by game devs once again. That is where the troop composition, strength and skills of heroes, combinations of all of the strategy loses its meaning and definition.


Turtles take up too much space. It is almost always better to use more heroes instead, to ensure you win stat bonus. If you are going to win stat bonus anyways, then it doesn't matter.

Re: Cheat bombarders ability open fire.

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:02 pm
by neuro
Lolix wrote:
It's roughly similar though no?
Mech is 25 per unit while scorpions are 28
Spiders are 15 while bombardiers are 16


The most common (48 gold rockets = 96 gold army cap) x (20 silver mechs = 100 army silver cap) x (6 gold spiders x 100 gold army cap) x (35 silver scorpions = 140 silver army cap). The dwarves use less gold army cap to attack and can build more troops. If you add that a level 50 jaq has a damage like 16 gold rockets and that it gives almost 50% more life to the mechs, you already have the answer because the dwarves are so strong.

If the rockets are the scorpions in the conversion of troops, it does not make sense that a scorpion has 4 of army cap and a rocket 2, nor does it make sense that a tank has 20, a spider 15, and a turtle 35.

Re: Cheat bombarders ability open fire.

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:07 pm
by Behindtheed
neuro wrote:
Lolix wrote:
It's roughly similar though no?
Mech is 25 per unit while scorpions are 28
Spiders are 15 while bombardiers are 16


The most common (48 gold rockets = 96 gold army cap) x (20 silver mechs = 100 army silver cap) x (6 gold spiders x 100 gold army cap) x (35 silver scorpions = 140 silver army cap). The dwarves use less gold army cap to attack and can build more troops. If you add that a level 50 jaq has a damage like 16 gold rockets and that it gives almost 50% more life to the mechs, you already have the answer because the dwarves are so strong.



Now where in the world are you seeing silver mech buffs mattering? Lich can use silver scorps for duels- but a dwarf can not use silver front-line in duels or high lvl garrison attacks. A dwarf can use gold mech front-line if they win the stat bonus in a duel, and probably not lose any. But then again they could probably use just about anything if they win the stat bonus in a duel - mechs just increase the chance of permanent loss.

It's like some of you guys live in a different dimension.

Re: Cheat bombarders ability open fire.

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:18 pm
by neuro
Behindtheed wrote:
neuro wrote:
Lolix wrote:
It's roughly similar though no?
Mech is 25 per unit while scorpions are 28
Spiders are 15 while bombardiers are 16


The most common (48 gold rockets = 96 gold army cap) x (20 silver mechs = 100 army silver cap) x (6 gold spiders x 100 gold army cap) x (35 silver scorpions = 140 silver army cap). The dwarves use less gold army cap to attack and can build more troops. If you add that a level 50 jaq has a damage like 16 gold rockets and that it gives almost 50% more life to the mechs, you already have the answer because the dwarves are so strong.



Now where in the world are you seeing silver mech buffs mattering? Lich can use silver scorps for duels- but a dwarf can not use silver front-line in duels or high lvl garrison attacks. A dwarf can use gold mech front-line if they win the stat bonus in a duel, and probably not lose any. But then again they could probably use just about anything if they win the stat bonus in a duel - mechs just increase the chance of permanent loss.

It's like some of you guys live in a different dimension.


A dwarf is always going to kill a lich because the silver in this game is garbage. A dwarf is always going to do more damage than a lich because it has more than units. The only viable way to kill a dwarf is to have 35 gold scorpions = 140 gold army cap. Mechs are immune to poison and damage to spiders.