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Destination
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Re: @Devs - List of game breaking imbalances and stupid mechanics

Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:32 am

30% sounds like a lot, but its not acually THAT much. We are talking 30% additive bonus here as far as i know.
 
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Chillblaze
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Re: @Devs - List of game breaking imbalances and stupid mechanics

Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:33 am

Those 30% determine the outcome of the match. They were always here but just recently added to battle stats. This is asynchronous multiplayer.
Victory is pre-calculated once the battle starts and based on points, troops levels , etc.
Which means that if you have 30% advantage on hp/att speed/dmg and deploy equal troops you do not need to use spells at all to achieve victory.
Stacking those points from quests/shop/void is top priority and every % mathers.
 
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Re: @Devs - List of game breaking imbalances and stupid mechanics

Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:15 pm

If is way more than just 30%

You get 30% more damage, while your HP is 30% less, and You also receive 30% more magic damage, and the attack speed of your opponent is 30% faster.

Just a simple unscientific math will be (70%) ^ 4 = 25% power than your opponent. If 25% seems too much, I think you will agree it is more than 50%, if you just consider HP, Damage, and attack speed.

I get the importance of stats but I think this is too much.
 
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Re: @Devs - List of game breaking imbalances and stupid mechanics

Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:05 am

J8512 wrote:
If is way more than just 30%

You get 30% more damage, while your HP is 30% less, and You also receive 30% more magic damage, and the attack speed of your opponent is 30% faster.

Just a simple unscientific math will be (70%) ^ 4 = 25% power than your opponent. If 25% seems too much, I think you will agree it is more than 50%, if you just consider HP, Damage, and attack speed.

I get the importance of stats but I think this is too much.


The math is definitely a bit mysterious... as is a lot of this game. at least for the parts of the community that are used to seeing every little multiplier / base damage stat in other games. Regardless, the eyeball test, if you just check the duels that people are posting about, almost always shows the stat favored player winning. The only consistent exception is lich dumping on humans, but thats just a terrible matchup for humans.

Anyway, I think its the attack damage and attack speed that really break it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are doing 30% more damage 30% more often... Starting at 100 DPS, you go to 130 damage/ .7 seconds = 186 total dps, which is insane. Attack speed + attack damage always scale exponentially, and god knows how all of this is affected by things like Avalon horn or a turtle
 
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Re: @Devs - List of game breaking imbalances and stupid mechanics

Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:39 pm

These values just stack with each other to create one huge advantage. You deal 30% more damage attacking 30% faster while having 30% more health, so when you have X units it's like they're XII or even XIII, someone with the stats in hand could do this calculation. They could cap it at like 10% and it would still be strong.
 
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Re: @Devs - List of game breaking imbalances and stupid mechanics

Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:00 pm

This is so right

The unit levels + hero stats imbalance is killing the game. It basically means that tactical prowess in fighting means nothing.
Another major error: Some hero's skills simply do not work in pvp - Rufio, Mako's active skills for example are impossible to fire off during a battle.
Another: Giving an extra hero in void to only those players who did not already buy Avalon/Avril/Rufio - and giving some players all three free from the beginning. When the void was implemented, some people got an extra free hero, some did not.
 
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Re: @Devs - List of game breaking imbalances and stupid mechanics

Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:02 pm

And of course, on top of all, allowing migrations.
The migrations destroy servers so fast.
 
shaunus
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Re: @Devs - List of game breaking imbalances and stupid mechanics

Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:38 am

1) the way we get stat cards FOR FREE atm in void, you cannot blame P2W... and heroes should be a large part of this game. so i think its fine the way it is.

No.

This is coming from a non whale with extremely good stats, better than most of the people (including whales) on the server; 2nd or third best in terms of stats (and I have excels of the majority of the player bases stats).

If you rely on the void, you are in for a rude awakening come duel time. Why? Simply because everyone else is also doing the void and using other means to improve their stats in addition to that.

Whales have an absurd advantage in the early and mid game stat wise. It's a total joke, we're talking 30/30/30/30 in all very easily and it isn't until several months into the server where proactive min-maxing f2p/patron + 1 $$ hero players finally catch up.

J8512 wrote:
If is way more than just 30%

You get 30% more damage, while your HP is 30% less, and You also receive 30% more magic damage, and the attack speed of your opponent is 30% faster.

Just a simple unscientific math will be (70%) ^ 4 = 25% power than your opponent. If 25% seems too much, I think you will agree it is more than 50%, if you just consider HP, Damage, and attack speed.

I get the importance of stats but I think this is too much.

Somebody having 30% more hitpoints than you is not the same as you having 30% less hitpoints. It's ~23% less.
30% more damage + 30% more attack speed probably looks like this: Base damage * (1+ multipliers + 0.3) * (1 + AS multipliers + 0.3).

Using spiders as an example: With 30%/30% (I verified my math with in game numbers for the base formula) I'd gain 20.6% more raw damage, and with attack speed gain another 29.4% damage bringing the total to 50.1%.

If we do this math for the hitpoints of scorpions: You get 21% more actual hitpoints with a 30% bonus.
As you can see here, all of the modifiers but command are far more reasonable than they appear. Attack speed is a rare stat, so giving 30% to all is excessively good but that said, damage/hp modifiers may allow you to reach thresholds where stuns get applied to enemies, or not applied to your units.
 
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Re: @Devs - List of game breaking imbalances and stupid mechanics

Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:09 am

Some math in this.


NO stat advantages.
We test the following:
10 units 100HP each. Each dealing 10 attack damage each every 10 seconds, for a total of 100 damage every 10 seconds. Total healthpool on both sides is 1000. Units on both sides would die after 100 seconds.



Bonuses.
1 side with no boost:
10 units 100HP each. Dealing 10 attack damage each every 10 seconds, for a total of 100 damage every 10 seconds. Total enemy healthpool is 1300. Units from your opponent would die after 130 seconds.

Enemy side has a 30% boost due to stat advantage:
10 units 130HP each. Dealing 13 attack damage every 7 seconds, for a total of 186 damage every 10 seconds. Total enemy healthpool is 1000. Your units would die after 53 seconds.

This makes your enemy's units 59% stronger than yours, not including magic bonuses, meaning it's virtually impossible for you to win. Now attack speed is a little dicey in math. But even if we switch it to 13 damage every 9 seconds, your units would die after 69 seconds making your enemy's units over 40% stronger than yours.

You can argue a couple of things here:
- You will never be at a 30% stat disadvantage in all stats
- You can grind stats out F2P.

Sure, maybe. But realistically, anyone who pays money, will be ahead of you. And the stat advantage is a problem, whether its 30% or 10% or 2%. Take 2 equally skilled players with the same lineup in ANY game. Give one of them even a 2% advantage, and they will win every time.

This means that duels are essentially predetermined. The second you click Start Battle, the victor is known. Your just don't know who it is yet.
 
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Re: @Devs - List of game breaking imbalances and stupid mechanics

Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:53 am

I can just say it again. Those stats are ADDITIVE.

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