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Dazed
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Catapult Sniped by Wall Units

Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:57 am

So this has been a 'feature' since i started playing but recently it seems the chance of it getting targeted at the start of battle has been increased or maybe im just getting unlucky. Just wanted to hear some thoughts on this mechanic.. good / bad etc, as the cata being randomly targeted at the back behind ur ENTIRE army just seems silly , adding thousands of Blood Diamond & Gold cost to an otherwise successful raid ...

The reason this is happening i believe is because the wall units have infinite range so can randomly target the catapult even though its at the back behind entire army.
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Orangejuice
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Re: Catapult Sniped by Wall Units

Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:09 am

Well see your problem is you shouldn't be using catapults for seige. The way you siege is full bronze and Jacques. He will actually do more damage to walls than multiple silver catapults. Then you can easily revive him in the event he didn't completely murder everyone and continue on until the wall is empty.
 
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Zinek
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Re: Catapult Sniped by Wall Units

Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:26 am

Orangejuice wrote:
Well see your problem is you shouldn't be using catapults for seige. The way you siege is full bronze and Jacques. He will actually do more damage to walls than multiple silver catapults. Then you can easily revive him in the event he didn't completely murder everyone and continue on until the wall is empty.



It’s sad that this is actually true
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awkwardbowman
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Re: Catapult Sniped by Wall Units

Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:52 am

If there are any gaps in your line-up, wall units (or any units) can attack through them. Be careful when setting it up. Additionally, even though you may use all the spaces, certain troops (like mechs) won't really take up all the space. Two mech groups put next to each other won't cover that entire section. Once they start moving, they tend to create gaps due to the how each group targets collectively to keep them nearby each other. This makes it so, if you set up a line-up where everything is of an even width (such as mechs with blasters behind them), then you have easy gaps that get created. This can lead to easy pickings against your backline cannons.

Easy things to do to prevent this:
1) Don't have gaps
2) Place your siege weapons directly behind other groups of units

Sources: Personal Experience

Side notes:
It's sad that Jacques has replaced the need for siege weapons. If you don't have him, you take a lot more risk than some other players. He has reduced the risk factor significantly, which is, in my opinion, very unhealthy for this game, considering it's a p2w hero. There needs to be an adjustment made to his kit, but that's another thread.
 
ddelucca
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Re: Catapult Sniped by Wall Units

Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:52 am

Dazed wrote:
So this has been a 'feature' since i started playing but recently it seems the chance of it getting targeted at the start of battle has been increased or maybe im just getting unlucky. Just wanted to hear some thoughts on this mechanic.. good / bad etc, as the cata being randomly targeted at the back behind ur ENTIRE army just seems silly , adding thousands of Blood Diamond & Gold cost to an otherwise successful raid ...

The reason this is happening i believe is because the wall units have infinite range so can randomly target the catapult even though its at the back behind entire army.


This happened to me twice with golden catapults. After that I just entirely gave up on sieging as I do not have Jacques and he has now become a requirement for anything in this game from dueling to void challenges to garrison busting. Regular play with silver and gold units with day-long injuries and expensive rare resource losses on death is simply gone in favor of bronze + hero damage carry which Lilith games seem to prefer as they rather buff all other heroes instead of nerfing Jacques to make the expensive units matter again.

You know there's something wrong with the game balance when Jacques can safely deal more damage to walls than specialized siege engines that are destroyed and can't go to the hospital.
 
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Dazed
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Re: Catapult Sniped by Wall Units

Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:48 am

Just to address some the idea's thats been raised , the gaps i believe are not a factor as when running 4-4 for front 2 rows there is only a 1 tile gap on the side with the entire board filled in. I used to think this aswell and left xtra units out of bak row so i didnt need put the cata right on the edge of the board etc, but sadly no matter how i do it there seems there is always a chance.

If their idea of this mechanic is to offer a % chance of failing the siege based off who is targeted first then that is just stupid and offers nothing but a dice roll for every attack. Your already risking resources just by attacking, this chance at losing a cata when no other units get injured or die is completely absurd..

The infinite range is fine as the wall units need to constantly attack, but attacking past the entire army just to 'focus' down the cata at the start of battle is where the problem lies .. perhaps forcing the wall units to 'target' the closest enemy would b the way of fixing this issue.. obviously the jacqs ideas are not what this thread is about...
Work like you don't need the money, love like you've never been hurt and dance like no one is watching.
 
Hoffman72510
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Re: Catapult Sniped by Wall Units

Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:45 am

I don’t feel like posting screens right now but my gold cannons do twice as much damage as my silver cannons and my silver cannons easily out damaged my Jacques which, although not insanely geared out, is definitely better than a lot of people. So please, please please please, stop making retarded opinions stated as fact just because a few Chinese players spent thousands of dollars making their Jacques’ stupid OP. The majority of Jacques don’t do 5510k damage.
 
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Shu
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Re: Catapult Sniped by Wall Units

Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:49 am

It would be easier to give us Jacques boxes for Linari if they don't want to nerf him.

They are able to 'randomly' target the backline because they have infinite range. This has been happening for a long time, and it's really dangerous on high level sieges since we can't properly use catapults.

I'm not sure if we should suggest the AI behavior to target the nearby targets first. But that's one thing to fix this kind of problem.
 
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Maebius
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Re: Catapult Sniped by Wall Units

Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:33 am

Is it really random though?
After I switched to dwarves, I put 1 silver tank in front of each catapult and haven't gotten one targetted since. Am I just lucky?
Maybe priority to massive units comes into play as well.
Nowadays I always start siege with 2 silver siege units on the back left/back right side. Jacques clears the middle and the demolishers mostly kill the left/right wall troops by the time the rest of my troops come into wall range....I find that I get fewer losses that way so quite curious as to how siege units are "supposed" to be targetted.
 
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Shu
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Re: Catapult Sniped by Wall Units

Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:44 am

^On the first sight of the battle, they will target the nearby units(frontlines). After they're done with it or if they change targets for some reason. That's the time there's a chance that they target your siege or heroes since they have infinite range. It's an RNG feature where the units change to random targets which makes some of the battle unpredictable.

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