Shu wrote:

-1 There are limit for stats anyway, eventually you will fill them all. There's no need to waste the devs time making this. That's just my opinion.

That eventually is longer than the life span of these servers. Most servers die within the first 2 months and nobody has time to max out every hero stat in that time. You can see the disadvantage of not having a properly boosted hero if you duel/pvp at late game. When a patch changes heroes that drastically, it needs to provide a way to undo what was invested in that hero in the past.

And this is not something they haven't done in the past. This is already coded. They did it for the paid heroes, they just need to do it for F2P heroes like Avalon or Grimms who were completely reworked.

Lol over 50% of there community won't get close to max stats and some have had heroes well before they made changes to them with stats that no longer affect them wasting bonus cards they've collect through legit play. All they are doing is punishing older players for starting earlier than they patched right now. Just because personally you seem to play or pay more than others shu, only puts you in the 1% of us that hardly matter other than waiting for late game content.

Point is, they have changed things on players who are now just punished for coming to the game before it was properly beta tested.

They die because they keep hopping servers and unable to compete with whales not because they can't reset their hero stats. When you stop playing, obviously you wont be able to max the stats just by idling. Being able to play longer by hunting for stat cards is one reason to keep playing long term.

This hasn't been coded based on your assumption, there's no reset in the game where you receive the stuff as "items" and be able to allocate them again. If you know coding, I'm sure you should be aware of every bit of detail in the process.

It's silly to consider me as 1% and assume that I play more than everyone when energy reset is 2 hours, and the majority of dungeon rotations are 60+ hours, not to mention shop rotation goes for 8 hours. There are plenty of ways to get cards, and raiding players doesn't count to that which is the only reason to stay longer in-game.

You are talking about playing on a dead server. People do not play this game for PvE. These type of games only last as long as there is some competition.

The hero base stats are already stored in a database and so are amount of cards currently on them. Resetting them is not as big of a deal as you make it sound. You clearly have no idea what has been done in this game in the past so let me enlighten you. The stat reset I refered to HAS BEEN DONE IN THE PAST. Maybe the caps will help you read it because you clearly cannot read it otherwise.

And when you start buying heroes, maybe you will realize that maxing stats on every hero is not an option for anyone. You need to invest the stat cards wisely and changing heroes as they were changed in patch 1.13, requires a reset on the affected heroes.

Servers die because there is nothing left to do. There is no loot left because people start using all of it and your fights start costing you a week of downtime. I am not afraid of competing with the whales because I am one of the strongest people on my server. I am currently the leader of the strongest house on my server as well as king of Hyral. Maybe you haven't competed at that level but I have and hero stats make a huge difference. My paid heroes got reset because of patch 1.13 yet my free ones did not which is a hindrance in a variety of ways.

With the dungeons having long cooldowns the further you travel and the drop rate of the cards being as terrible as it can possibly be; it will be more than a year before someone can max the desired stats on all their free and purchased heroes. In my 2.5 months on my current server, I have yet to max a single hero much less ALL of them and I do every dungeon mission as soon as it is available. If your plan is to max heroes in 1-2 years then this might come as a shocker, but others are not going to be playing the same dead server for 2 years to max a hero which is no longer relevant because the server is a ghost town.

Mine is not dead. And people choose to play this however they want PvE for enjoyment, PvP for competitiveness. I never mention anything about them didn't I? It's odd you'd bring that up and assume how I'd play.

I just don't see the need for reset aside from spoiling players who accidentally put Magic stats in Rufio when there's no more thrill in doing quests and waiting for shops every reset, it takes out the advantage in competitiveness as you mentioned how competitive you are. One of my hero is actually Cleo with 14/15 Stamina and 50/60 Magic. Like I said eventually you will fill them all anyway since there's a limit. And if you are forgetting, this IS a strategy game.

I know about the hero exchange I've been through the patch, and from time to time I'm sure they will balance things out and give nerf or buff to a specific hero. It's only a matter of whether it's your patch or not.

I have destroyed whales myself, and currently at XI rank with XIII whale as lvl 40 city in my server. It really won't help if you're just assuming my play style while looking up yours. This is about giving my opinion that I disagree to this spoiled suggestion. As I feel it's not needed and to give more reason to keep playing is to hunt for the stat cards in an RNG loot environment.

If you're having problems with long cooldowns why not just suggest that? Well they nerfed it before for a reason, just so you know. It's just not fun if you can get all you want as an early bird. Longevity of a game is very important, and as we all say that the game has a huge potential. We just have to wait for newer contents to come and while doing so, let's keep playing dungeons for more cards shall we?

The long cooldowns are not a problem. Longevity of a mobile game comes from keeping it interesting enough for the larger agroup of people but your uneducated guess on how the rest of the servers work is laughable. If your 1 single server works while close to C40, the other 120 servers don't work that way. Maybe that simple concept is beyond your undestanding so I will not waste time responding to you after this but once you understand that hero changes were not mere nerfs or buffs but rather reworks then you can maybe get over your ignorance. If the fundamental skills of a hero are changed, the players should not suffer because of it.

I can clearly see that you are just concerned that others will take advantage of it while you might have never invested in the particular reworked heroes. If you think that stats make no difference in end game heroes then maybe you should work look into stacking them properly. A waste of 50+ might, command and stamina cards isn't a minor thing for anyone especially when it is not the players fault since heroes used to work differently.

Anyways, the rest of the people can clearly see that it is needed so you can have your unpopular opinion while the larger group of people have theirs. Good luck, have fun. I will not be replying to you after this.

Ortiran wrote:

The long cooldowns are not a problem. Longevity of a mobile game comes from keeping it interesting enough for the larger agroup of people but your uneducated guess on how the rest of the servers work is laughable. If your 1 single server works while close to C40, the other 120 servers don't work that way. Maybe that simple concept is beyond your undestanding so I will not waste time responding to you after this but once you understand that hero changes were not mere nerfs or buffs but rather reworks then you can maybe get over your ignorance. If the fundamental skills of a hero are changed, the players should not suffer because of it.

I can clearly see that you are just concerned that others will take advantage of it while you might have never invested in the particular reworked heroes. If you think that stats make no difference in end game heroes then maybe you should work look into stacking them properly. A waste of 50+ might, command and stamina cards isn't a minor thing for anyone especially when it is not the players fault since heroes used to work differently.

Anyways, the rest of the people can clearly see that it is needed so you can have your unpopular opinion while the larger group of people have theirs. Good luck, have fun. I will not be replying to you after this.

You're not wrong about keeping the game interesting to keep the players from playing and one of the ways for doing it is letting them grind their way up rather than being able to spoil themselves with the quick adjustments. I don't fully disagree with this suggestion but I just don't want the fast phase of things. I mean, that's why they added lumber in the research this update, yes? The same reason why they adjusted the longer cooldowns for dungeons.

I have to admit I'm not a stone aged player in AoC to know if the system you were talking about already existed before, but did it occur to your mind the reason why they removed it?

You chose to reply from the start so, you don't have to back down now. A simple concept beyond my understanding? I do understand it, it's you who don't understand why I disagree from the first place. I've given fair arguments as far as I'm concerned and remember you're the one guessing how the server works by saying..

Ortiran wrote:

People do not play this game for PvE. These type of games only last as long as there is some competition.

Considering there's a huge potential for PvE in this game, and if you don't know Heroes Might & Magic I suggest you should give it a try. And since the Void Mirror(PvE content) is coming with generous rewards. It's funny to accuse someone uneducated when you're the one who isn't open for people's opinion. Awwwe you hurt my feelings man.

As a gamer myself, it's boring to always PvP, so a touch of PvE won't hurt that's why I told you that the players can play however they want, how is that guessing on how the rest of the servers work? Hello? Anyone there?

I have never invested a particular reworked hero? Did you just hear yourself? I just told you I own Cleo STILL and she was nerfed so bad most of the single-hero buyers switched to Jacques, Rose or others.

Ortiran wrote:

once you understand that hero changes were not mere nerfs or buffs but rather reworks

Hello? Is this real? You sir have a very huge glowy brain, while I have a tiny uneducated non-glowy brain.

I have to admit this is still a suggestion and players are not the one deciding the final conclusion, but your passion to debate for one person disagreeing to your suggestion makes me think how badly you messed up your stats. My condolences.

Also, I wouldn't consider a page of 1-2 replies in a forum topic is considered as a larger group of people. Boy, you haven't been into a REAL forums. Well, thanks you're kind enough to at least say GL HF, same to you, and GG well played.

EDIT: I never said that stats doesn't make any difference, stop adding things that I'm not saying.

Since you don't want me to back down then sure you can get 1 last reply. If your argument does not bring valid points for the main discussion topic I will be ignoring it.

Shu wrote:

Also, I wouldn't consider a page of 1-2 replies in a forum topic is considered as a larger group of people.

First off when 8 are voting yes while 1 votes no, it is against majority. Maybe you do not understand how comparisons work but you should look into it. If the majority likes it, it is the LARGER part of the voters. 8 > 1 therefore 8 is LARGER. That is how stats work. A circle of 2cm diameter is LARGER than a circle of 1.99999cm diameter. So 8 replies might not be a lot but that is still a LARGER part of the group compared to your 1 single, isolated, solitary vote.

I ignored your point about Cleo because Cleo got a NERF not a REWORK, so my argument about not investing in a REWORKED hero stands. And by your logic returning a Cleo should have given people a max magic Jacques (if they chose to exchange for Jacques). Because in your own words: "eventually you will fill them all". Great logic 10/10. Avalon is a hero that got a REWORK.

Maybe you do not understand the concept of rework of a hero compared to nerfs or buffs to a skill. If a skill was nerfed it is just balancing like with Cleo. When a hero is reworked and gets new skills, and a stat, all of a sudden, becomes the best thing for it while the other stat is beyond useless now, then that is problematic. In that case it does not matter that your 50 magic Cleo was nerfed because it was warranted and did not change how the hero functions. However, it matters that Avalon or Grimms do not return cards invested into them because they reworked half of those damn heroes. Prior to the patch, the only place to add command as a lich was Grimms. Nothing else that you own as lich did the slightest thing with command. However, the various reworks have made Grimms use of command almost negligible since you would not realistically max Smoke Bomb like you did prior to the patch on a lich account due to his own rework and at the same time have insanely buffed Avalon's use of command as well as Virion.

So let's see your arguments about the main discussion topic: Hero Stat Resets.

Shu wrote:

I've given fair arguments as far as I'm concerned

Shu wrote:

-1 There are limit for stats anyway, eventually you will fill them all. There's no need to waste the devs time making this. That's just my opinion.

This was your main argument.
1) For your first point, it will take around half a year to max a single hero out (that is if you are playing on a conquered server). If you think a mobile game will last 5-6 years solely so that people can farm stat cards so that a hero is maxed out then you are beyond mistaken.
2) Second point, this has already been done in the past and as such is merely a matter of them WANTING to do it rather than the difficulty of a task. Reusing code is not difficult.

Shu wrote:

As a gamer myself, it's boring to always PvP, so a touch of PvE won't hurt that's why I told you that the players can play however they want

Yes, have fun running dungeons that can all be wrapped up in 30 mins of total playtime a day. Not everyone plays the game just for 30 mins.

Shu wrote:

your passion to debate for one person disagreeing to your suggestion makes me think how badly you messed up your stats.

I argue for what is right rather than what my stats are showing. Good job trying to call me out on my stats. However, the stat cards I paid for still put me above at least 95% of the population of my server and most people would call my hero stats end game. However, that does not mean they are perfect. When there has been no mistake made by me, then there should be no reason to make the stats anything less than 100% perfect. Maybe you do not like to have perfectly built heroes but I do not like the fact that my heroes do not have perfect stats due to a change that was out of my control. A single card wasted (due to the developers' oversight) is still a card wasted regardless of how ahead I am compared to the rest.

As far as PvE goes, you can wrap up all PvE in this game within the first 3-4 weeks if even that long (including hitting all major "world loot" as well as tactics school). After that the only PvE you have is killing dungeons with cooldowns between 6-68 hours. Idk about you but I play this game for more than 30 minutes a day. 1 dungeon takes me less than a minute to clear and for the rest of my time on this game, the only purpose to play is PvP. The game has almost no PvE right now. Whether you like it or not PvP is the only thing left to do in this game for anyone who plays the game for more than 30 mins to an hour a day. And quite frankly we (the PvP oriented players) are the people investing the money into this game to keep it running. Besides PvE is not the discussion point here, you can start a new thread for that if you desire.

Like I said at the start, if your responses are going to be passive aggressive insults you can feel free to throw them out again but that will no longer be getting a response from me. If it is off topic, it has no need to be in this forum thread and will just get ignored. If you can present a valid argument for leaving the stats messed up due to the developers' oversight, then feel free to share the logic with us.

Shu wrote:

Also, I wouldn't consider a page of 1-2 replies in a forum topic is considered as a larger group of people.

Ortiran wrote:

First off when 8 are voting yes while 1 votes no, it is against majority. Maybe you do not understand how comparisons work but you should look into it. If the majority likes it, it is the LARGER part of the voters. 8 > 1 therefore 8 is LARGER. That is how stats work. A circle of 2cm diameter is LARGER than a circle of 1.99999cm diameter. So 8 replies might not be a lot but that is still a LARGER part of the group compared to your 1 single, isolated, solitary vote.

You were talking about the larger group of people and not the votes they're two different things I just took that word from you. By saying a larger group of people you could refer this to the overall AoC players which are not registered in the Forums.

You just make it sound seemingly large but the forum community is still small I would understand if you could make more alt accounts to make it at least 20~50 people agreeing to you. And no I'm not saying the previous respondents were alt accounts. But 8 is not convincingly large enough comparing the thousands unknowingly and undecided.

Ortiran wrote:

I ignored your point about Cleo because Cleo got a NERF not a REWORK, so my argument about not investing in a REWORKED hero stands. And by your logic returning a Cleo should have given people a max magic Jacques (if they chose to exchange for Jacques). Because in your own words: "eventually you will fill them all". Great logic 10/10. Avalon is a hero that got a REWORK.

When you're debating you shouldn't ignore a detail, I would understand if you missed it by accident.

Ortiran wrote:

Ortiran wrote:

once you understand that hero changes were not mere nerfs or buffs but rather reworks

Ortiran wrote:

I ignored your point about Cleo because Cleo got a NERF not a REWORK

Ortiran wrote:

Great logic 10/10.

I just find this entertaining.

Ortiran wrote:

And by your logic returning a Cleo should have given people a max magic Jacques (if they chose to exchange for Jacques).

I asked a friend with his exchanged hero, he said he was able to get back the stat cards after he exchanged his hero. Do you have a problem with your exchange hero? you seem to be uninformed about it.

Ortiran wrote:

Maybe you do not understand the concept of rework of a hero compared to nerfs or buffs to a skill. If a skill was nerfed it is just balancing like with Cleo. When a hero is reworked and gets new skills, and a stat, all of a sudden, becomes the best thing for it while the other stat is beyond useless now, then that is problematic. In that case it does not matter that your 50 magic Cleo was nerfed because it was warranted and did not change how the hero functions. However, it matters that Avalon or Grimms do not return cards invested into them because they reworked half of those damn heroes. Prior to the patch, the only place to add command as a lich was Grimms. Nothing else that you own as lich did the slightest thing with command. However, the various reworks have made Grimms use of command almost negligible since you would not realistically max Smoke Bomb like you did prior to the patch on a lich account due to his own rework and at the same time have insanely buffed Avalon's use of command as well as Virion.

re·work // verb
make changes to something, especially in order to make it more up to date.

I know it has a different use when it comes to gaming but that's not the main issue. But how careless of me, right? Going back to the topic, I have Grimms with 30/30 Might and Virion with 30/30 Command. I'm not even a whale, while you all protest that it takes so many years to max the stats, the reason more I disagree with you. While I might sound selfish since I disagree to this suggestion what I'm trying to say to you is to be patience and keep playing the game. With the new contents coming we'll be much more busy with it and growing our stats will continue to progress.

There's no downside if you don't reset since you use all those heroes anyway for a serious battle, unless you're allocating stats to a hero you're never going to use. All in all, it's not enough reason to implement this suggestion.

I'm also a Lich and Grimms is not the only hero you should stack the Command stats into, considering it gives buffs to your units as well. I'm sure you're aware of that, right? It's just weird you have to mention it.

Ortiran wrote:

So let's see your arguments about the main discussion topic: Hero Stat Resets.

Shu wrote:

I've given fair arguments as far as I'm concerned

Shu wrote:

-1 There are limit for stats anyway, eventually you will fill them all. There's no need to waste the devs time making this. That's just my opinion.

This was your main argument.
1) For your first point, it will take around half a year to max a single hero out (that is if you are playing on a conquered server). If you think a mobile game will last 5-6 years solely so that people can farm stat cards so that a hero is maxed out then you are beyond mistaken.

I haven't been playing for half a year and I've maxed some of the stats. And I'm not playing on a conquered server yet. This game wasn't called Art of Maxing out the Hero Stats for a reason. It's just an added bonus though I admit it leads to certain advantages in combat.

I know a mobile game that's been running for 4 or 5+ years now and was even bought by Ubisoft. You shouldn't belittle mobile games if only you know how much they earn. No one told you to farm it for 5-6 years, it's just part of a game mechanic I'm sure there will be more contents to come that we will be paying attention more than just stats and if you're complaining how you're not getting them, you can always purchase chests right? Either you buy or play hard, you know the rules in a P2W game? I don't have to tell you that.

Ortiran wrote:

2) Second point, this has already been done in the past and as such is merely a matter of them WANTING to do it rather than the difficulty of a task. Reusing code is not difficult.

I already said my point here.

Shu wrote:

I have to admit I'm not a stone aged player in AoC to know if the system you were talking about already existed before, but did it occur to your mind the reason why they removed it?

Ortiran wrote:

Shu wrote:

As a gamer myself, it's boring to always PvP, so a touch of PvE won't hurt that's why I told you that the players can play however they want

Yes, have fun running dungeons that can all be wrapped up in 30 mins of total playtime a day. Not everyone plays the game just for 30 mins.

You can't just incompletely quote my words and answer based on how you please, I brought that up because you keep accusing me that I know how the servers work and I simply said that they can play however they want. Are you really going that low in this discussion? Also, don't assume that I only play for 30 minutes. That's just sad.

Ortiran wrote:

Shu wrote:

your passion to debate for one person disagreeing to your suggestion makes me think how badly you messed up your stats.

I argue for what is right rather than what my stats are showing. Good job trying to call me out on my stats. However, the stat cards I paid for still put me above at least 95% of the population of my server and most people would call my hero stats end game. However, that does not mean they are perfect. When there has been no mistake made by me, then there should be no reason to make the stats anything less than 100% perfect. Maybe you do not like to have perfectly built heroes but I do not like the fact that my heroes do not have perfect stats due to a change that was out of my control. A single card wasted (due to the developers' oversight) is still a card wasted regardless of how ahead I am compared to the rest.

If you think you're always right then we will have a long conversation. I have my perfectionist-side as well, that's why I'm planning to max them all out. Your kind of perfection is like an OCD which is triggered by change. You know, if you're really obsess with being perfect you should learn to adapt because it will not be the last time that it will have a nerf/buff/rework. And looking at the big picture, if your aim is to "fix" and not complete, then your vision of perfect is much weaker.

Ortiran wrote:

As far as PvE goes, you can wrap up all PvE in this game within the first 3-4 weeks if even that long (including hitting all major "world loot" as well as tactics school). After that the only PvE you have is killing dungeons with cooldowns between 6-68 hours. Idk about you but I play this game for more than 30 minutes a day. 1 dungeon takes me less than a minute to clear and for the rest of my time on this game, the only purpose to play is PvP. The game has almost no PvE right now. Whether you like it or not PvP is the only thing left to do in this game for anyone who plays the game for more than 30 mins to an hour a day. And quite frankly we (the PvP oriented players) are the people investing the money into this game to keep it running. Besides PvE is not the discussion point here, you can start a new thread for that if you desire.

I appreciate your efforts for trying to give a brief about PvE and PvP. But I don't think I would need it considering I'm already at Castle level 33. I didn't say don't like PvP, I just told you it's boring if it's too much, they need to add more PvE aspect and thankfully they did with the Void Mirror. Let's get back to the topic shall we?

Ortiran wrote:

Like I said at the start, if your responses are going to be passive aggressive insults you can feel free to throw them out again but that will no longer be getting a response from me. If it is off topic, it has no need to be in this forum thread and will just get ignored. If you can present a valid argument for leaving the stats messed up due to the developers' oversight, then feel free to share the logic with us.

Well, insulting you was never my intention at first. It's just that the two of you belittle my opinion since I disagree to your pending suggestion. I was only planning to address both of your concern for the first time but you started the chain, so I'm assuming you're prepared for a good debate. Also, calling me uneducated first doesn't make me the only one throwing the insults here. You are.. just.. so.. SPECIAL

I stand with my opinion, the stats are not messed up, only yourselves. It doesn't need a reset. Why? You need to ask first why does hero skills have a reset. Simply because you can't allocate all of the skills since there's only 100 Skill points total. While stats are progressive since you can keep stacking them til their limit.

The cards dropping from dungeons and appearing from shops is RNG which gives more challenge and more reason to play, there are no mistakes in stats since you can keep filling them all. And again, no one is forcing you to max out your stats if you don't want to.

On the side note, this is just a shorter version of my response since the first one was deleted because I needed to login and didn't save what I wrote. Derp. But I hope I covered enough for you to understand my opinion.

your point would make sense shu, if they hadn't changed heroes to not use stats they once used, or utilise a stat more than they once did, thus affecting EVERY player who tailored their quite limited stat card drops throught the game up to the point the devs go and change it all. If we were beta testing a game or on the PTR, this is no issue, but its a big set back to those who have been around long enough to see these changes happen and have them affect them.