assenko
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I quit, and it is Liliths fault.

Thu May 11, 2017 10:16 pm

So some of you in official vip11+ chat might have seen a part of wall of text I didn't really finish. But I'm not that easy to get rid of.
As I stated there, as everyone knows, the new exiting feature - the paywall Hawk - is a magnificent example of a cash grab of enormous magnitude. If a person is an idiot he might say "but duh, hawk is not broken, new ability is not a must have, it is ok to pay 30 bucks for an advantage over free 2 play players..." etc. Or other completely nonsensical garbage, just showing that a person like this is living in completely imaginary reality with rainbows and unicorn farts. Any sane person with a half a brain would actually ask himself and Lilith: from this point onwards what really stops you from adding more paywalls, more pay 2 win, more cash grabs with a non-zero chance that one of those will actually end up being game changing, completely broken beyond belief, resulting in widening an already huge gap between money throwing whales (myself included up until 1,5 months ago, vip15, thank you very much) and free 2 play, or non big spenders. The answer is simple: nothing. From now on nothing stops this company from bending you over with you juicy wallet spread open throbbing with cash and sliding their enormous greedy member right between you innocent butt cheeks. And many of the whales will squeal in joy in acceptance as they get rid of their innocence along with last shreds of dignity, asking for more, as the penetration escalates until a climax so powerful that it will brake the game apart and destroy everything that was built. And as the smoke settles all you will see besides the dripping liquid between your legs is developers laughing their ass off on the luxury resorts sipping margaritas bought with your hard earned cash. Is this what you want? This is exactly what you will get. But me, I will not be a part of that, thankfully.

But something like this alone would probably not make me quit. Probably. As far as I am concerned the game is amazing and brilliant in its core, but it has so many flaws in development that I don't even know where to start.

The most glaring thing, obviously, will be a plethora of bugs, some of them existing for months (MONTHS). As everyone knows there was exactly zero content patches with no glitches and bugs attached to them. Some of them were broken to the state of unplayability. But the worst thing is that many of them are still there. Take for example the heroes village, a major content update with actual things to do over long period of time adding more layers of strategy and competition to at that point stale arena meta and, of course, other aspects of the game. On paper sounds exiting, right? But in reality months have passed and nothing was done with non-working village talents. I remind you - this is a major feature. Something that should have been tested thoroughly for weeks, to be released flawless. But that was not the case. All of this just screams bad planning, bad programming, bad management, bad reception of feedback, just bad everything really. Yet, some, if not many, view a mention of something like this as a complaint. Are you guys insane? Something that is not allowed to exist in the first place in any game from a decent company, or is fixed normally within hours (HOURS), exists here for weeks, for months. And yes, it should be pointed out over and over again. Over and over. Over and over. Until the message gets through some thick skulls: that it is not how things are done if you expect to get money from your product. And the list of bugs goes on and on. Not working mystic ruins pop-ups? Should be fixed with in a couple of hours. Yet, exist for days now. New heroes coming out with broken or not working abilities? Should not exist in the first place. Yet, not getting fixed for weeks. And many, many other issues.

But how exactly many of the flaws are getting handled in proper games, you may ask. Well, by proper testing, first and foremost, as I mentioned before. We are not getting any of that, obviously. Second, by having feedback from players. And, oh joy, we are not getting any of that either. The forums are basically useless (I'm not even sure why I'm writing this even), mere presence of Henry here doesn't prove that any information gets through to actual programmers or management. Judging from the pace of bug fixes, or lack there of, i'd say it doesn't get anywhere. Reddit? I don't really know why it exists and if it has any relevance to feedback. Probably not. The official game page in the interwebs? Do you know what Henry said in regards to me pointing out the absence of update on official site for years? He almost literally said "it is not needed, this chat provides way more feedback and is more useful than any internet site could have been". Well, no, Henry, you are being ignorant. Me personally, when I first found out about the game some year and a half ago, first thing I did is searched for official site to learn more about the game. And yet, it has seen zero updates ever since the day I first read it. This is just beyond a realm of understanding of a normal human being like myself, these amounts of neglectance for a valuable asset. This alleged vip only chat? Please, half of the population is blatantly ignorant and doesn't have the balls to admit to themselves that they spent their money on unfinished product. All they do is look Henry into the mouth in awe and wait for another bait and switch with shinnies like "here, guys, have another double purchase event of a powerful hero and stay silent, because we don't care really, we just pretend". Now I must make this really personal to get my point across. I think that Henry just doesn't do his job well. He is awful at it, in fact. All I saw from him was direct insults to players (which is blatantly unprofessional in itself); a lot of talk of "yes, we are aware of state of things", with nothing getting done in days/weeks/months, depending on which part of the game we are talking about; a lot of complaining about us, as players, being too complainy. This last part amuses me the most. Not seeing the obvious point that every single piece of feedback from players is never a complaint but a piece of constructive criticism for any decent game developer, no matter the form it may take. Every single message is, and should be, looked upon. That is how things are done in real businesses caring of their flock. But I might assume that all of this may be a result of language barrier on his side. And that is the only thing I will assume. Granted, that without him, we would not have even this little amount of connection with the developer. And I am thankful at least for that. In the end this is yet another flaw of management of the company as a whole - not putting enough resources into community management thus neglecting the player base almost entirely. There was a place where I saw this once - in Soviet Russia. Do you want to be an equivalent to Soviet Union, Lilith, really?

All of this feedback nonsense brings me to mention the thing that pisses me off to no end: the server merges. The server I am, I was on, was slowly dying for months now. Top guilds having their ranks filled with almost quitting, or those who already quit the game, leaving their characters behind for the sake of guild wars. Top guilds sitting easily over 90-100k guild points earned per three days, now scraping the bottom of a barrel with 30-60k, which is barely enough to keep the raids rolling for those who still hope to no avail for improvement of their beloved game. We waited patiently, we asked, we begged, everywhere we could for a merge, because there are no players to recruit any more, there is no fun in arena without new stock. There is only boredom. So we sit there waiting, yet recently was 6th consecutive merge without our server being involved. So more players will quit, because there is nothing to do aside from leveling heroes really, with nothing to use them on. Remaining ones will suffer even more without the support of thriving community and they will be disappointed. They will not give you their money, Lilith. They are already not giving you money. But all we hear in response is "the system is automated, it doesn't show that your server is inactive". Well, did it ever occur to you that you system is garbage? Did it ever occur to you that you can do merges every week? Did it ever occur to you that it is allowed to expand the server merge list a notch, that it is allowed to merge more of them at the time? Did it ever occur to you, that the actual players on each individual actual server are way more aware of the situation than you will ever be as things are right now? No? I thought so. Because I'm telling you - whatever "system" is currently in place, if there is one even, is obsolete and should have been reworked years ago. Yet all Lilith does is continuing ignoring their players completely.

And speaking of boredom. Speaking of absence of things to do. The updates for the game come at horribly slow pace. And then the update actually hits what do you give us in return for our patience, for which you plead so much in chat? What, a Tower event, that is considerably bugged, surprise, gets completed within 30 minutes, and is not to be seen again for god knows how long - probably two to three months? Please, the content is always welcome, anything at this point. But what you can not understand is that players need long lasting features, not something you can turn off and on again on a whim. Like the village, but working as intended. You took one step in right direction and it took you only 1,5 years to do that one step, breaking a leg in the process. You keep talking about patience? No one has that much patience. The result is obvious - you lose money, good job.

It has been pointed out numerous times, that every single current feature of the game is outdated: the arena, hol, guild wars, crucible. Especially the arenas are begging for rework. Yet you focus on churning out new heroes every other week instead of focusing on the things that really matter. Sure, new heroes bring easy money. But is there not a single person in the company sitting there thinking about long term perspective? It sure as hell does really seem so. What you will get in return in reality is dwindling player base in rapid succession at some point, probably by the end of the year, if you ask me.

So in the end, I know what will happen. Maybe Henry will read this, probably will say usual nonsense about this being just another complaint, when it is not. Maybe you will lock down this post, maybe you will delete it. But in doing so you will just prove my point, which is, to sum it all up: you don't care about your players, you don't care about the game getting better as long as it makes profit, easy buck above all else. You may say that it is not true. But the fact of the matter is that, exactly that, is how we as players see the situation. Some may defend you, due to the lack of dignity or brains, or both. But I know for a fact that many would back me up, many think alike. Many who, like me, are disgusted seeing how great this game could have been, if anybody but the artists did their job properly. Many who would suffer through everything bad that has and will happen with the game in hopes of a brighter future for the sake of entertaining us. Alas, not me. You have finally done it, you have outdone yourself. I quit, and it is Liliths fault.
 
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LoneWolf
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Re: I quit, and it is Liliths fault.

Thu May 11, 2017 10:50 pm

assenko wrote:
you don't care about your players, you don't care about the game getting better as long as it makes profit, easy buck above all else.

Well, they are a business, they do have to make a living some how. If you don't like it, don't play it. Simple.
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Re: I quit, and it is Liliths fault.

Thu May 11, 2017 11:14 pm

Nobody cares, Baboom papa pays the devs salary.
 
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DeusEx
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Re: I quit, and it is Liliths fault.

Fri May 12, 2017 12:44 am

LoneWolf wrote:
assenko wrote:
you don't care about your players, you don't care about the game getting better as long as it makes profit, easy buck above all else.

Well, they are a business, they do have to make a living some how. If you don't like it, don't play it. Simple.

You surely are stupid, aren't you? You are new, you surely don't have any idea as of yet of how things are.
Yes, they are a business, they MUST sell things to get going, but they also MUST satisfy the clients with some new things from time to time, but since Village back in November (which it is not even playable per se and it is bugged), no new feature has been introduced, only fucking sellings. I think before Village was RotA a year ago. That is NOT a way to behave towards players who are constantly asking for more things to do, because it is boring as it is now.
And because there are stupid people who keep spending money, Lilith just doesn't care. And Henry, even if he is indeed helpful, if he doesn't have the Power to change things fast, he is just as useless as us. And they respond with "Don't you see the new things we have given you for free?" like it was a favor they are doing to us to rebalance some crappy heroes. It is their fucking job and even that they don't do it right. They receive thousands and thousands of dollars, WHERE THE FUCK THAT THAT MONEY GO TO? Developing nope, programming nope.. surely to the fucking beach houses of some stupid chinese people who don't care about pleasing their customers.
Lilith MUST change quickly because this is getting ridiculous. And I just hate those fucking answers from CS and Henry of "we are aware of the problems" "we are doing something about it", you are doing Shit because it has been like that for months.
 
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LoneWolf
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Re: I quit, and it is Liliths fault.

Fri May 12, 2017 12:58 am

DeusEx wrote:
LoneWolf wrote:
assenko wrote:
you don't care about your players, you don't care about the game getting better as long as it makes profit, easy buck above all else.

Well, they are a business, they do have to make a living some how. If you don't like it, don't play it. Simple.

You surely are stupid, aren't you? You are new, you surely don't have any idea as of yet of how things are.
Yes, they are a business, they MUST sell things to get going, but they also MUST satisfy the clients with some new things from time to time, but since Village back in November (which it is not even playable per se and it is bugged), no new feature has been introduced, only fucking sellings. I think before Village was RotA a year ago. That is NOT a way to behave towards players who are constantly asking for more things to do, because it is boring as it is now.
And because there are stupid people who keep spending money, Lilith just doesn't care. And Henry, even if he is indeed helpful, if he doesn't have the Power to change things fast, he is just as useless as us. And they respond with "Don't you see the new things we have given you for free?" like it was a favor they are doing to us to rebalance some crappy heroes. It is their fucking job and even that they don't do it right. They receive thousands and thousands of dollars, WHERE THE FUCK THAT THAT MONEY GO TO? Developing nope, programming nope.. surely to the fucking beach houses of some stupid chinese people who don't care about pleasing their customers.
Lilith MUST change quickly because this is getting ridiculous. And I just hate those fucking answers from CS and Henry of "we are aware of the problems" "we are doing something about it", you are doing Shit because it has been like that for months.

Oh I'm sorry, I missed the part where you mentioned someone was holding a gun to your head forcing you to play this game. It's their app, not yours. They can do what they want to it. If you are bored of it, stop playing. Simple. YOU downloaded this app onto YOUR device. YOU are the one bored of it, so YOU are the one who can stop playing it. No need to rant about it.
Never Bite The Hand That Feeds You
Current Primary Deck: Nilya, Sylphi, Kong, Malrath, Goram
Current Secondary Deck: Firehawk, Jasmine, Taurus, Tashi, Valan

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Re: I quit, and it is Liliths fault.

Fri May 12, 2017 1:44 am

Since I have paid actual money, I have the right to express all what I think is shit and need improvement, and many VIP players won't stop playing only because we have invested money in this app, if we hadn't, we would have quitted a long time ago.
Lilith as a company should vare about their investors, so you shut the fuck up.
 
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LoneWolf
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Re: I quit, and it is Liliths fault.

Fri May 12, 2017 5:31 am

DeusEx wrote:
Since I have paid actual money, I have the right to express all what I think is shit and need improvement, and many VIP players won't stop playing only because we have invested money in this app, if we hadn't, we would have quitted a long time ago.
Lilith as a company should vare about their investors, so you shut the fuck up.

If you paid actual money and are now regretting it, the one person to blame is who? Yourself. You should know by now that all games loose their appeal after a while. I doubt the people are Lilith Games will be loosing any sleep over you quitting - they got what they were after from you.
Never Bite The Hand That Feeds You
Current Primary Deck: Nilya, Sylphi, Kong, Malrath, Goram
Current Secondary Deck: Firehawk, Jasmine, Taurus, Tashi, Valan

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Re: I quit, and it is Liliths fault.

Fri May 12, 2017 5:45 am

assenko wrote:
So some of you in official vip11+ chat might have seen a part of wall of text I didn't really finish. But I'm not that easy to get rid of.
As I stated there, as everyone knows, the new exiting feature - the paywall Hawk - is a magnificent example of a cash grab of enormous magnitude. If a person is an idiot he might say "but duh, hawk is not broken, new ability is not a must have, it is ok to pay 30 bucks for an advantage over free 2 play players..." etc. Or other completely nonsensical garbage, just showing that a person like this is living in completely imaginary reality with rainbows and unicorn farts. Any sane person with a half a brain would actually ask himself and Lilith: from this point onwards what really stops you from adding more paywalls, more pay 2 win, more cash grabs with a non-zero chance that one of those will actually end up being game changing, completely broken beyond belief, resulting in widening an already huge gap between money throwing whales (myself included up until 1,5 months ago, vip15, thank you very much) and free 2 play, or non big spenders. The answer is simple: nothing. From now on nothing stops this company from bending you over with you juicy wallet spread open throbbing with cash and sliding their enormous greedy member right between you innocent butt cheeks. And many of the whales will squeal in joy in acceptance as they get rid of their innocence along with last shreds of dignity, asking for more, as the penetration escalates until a climax so powerful that it will brake the game apart and destroy everything that was built. And as the smoke settles all you will see besides the dripping liquid between your legs is developers laughing their ass off on the luxury resorts sipping margaritas bought with your hard earned cash. Is this what you want? This is exactly what you will get. But me, I will not be a part of that, thankfully.

But something like this alone would probably not make me quit. Probably. As far as I am concerned the game is amazing and brilliant in its core, but it has so many flaws in development that I don't even know where to start.

The most glaring thing, obviously, will be a plethora of bugs, some of them existing for months (MONTHS). As everyone knows there was exactly zero content patches with no glitches and bugs attached to them. Some of them were broken to the state of unplayability. But the worst thing is that many of them are still there. Take for example the heroes village, a major content update with actual things to do over long period of time adding more layers of strategy and competition to at that point stale arena meta and, of course, other aspects of the game. On paper sounds exiting, right? But in reality months have passed and nothing was done with non-working village talents. I remind you - this is a major feature. Something that should have been tested thoroughly for weeks, to be released flawless. But that was not the case. All of this just screams bad planning, bad programming, bad management, bad reception of feedback, just bad everything really. Yet, some, if not many, view a mention of something like this as a complaint. Are you guys insane? Something that is not allowed to exist in the first place in any game from a decent company, or is fixed normally within hours (HOURS), exists here for weeks, for months. And yes, it should be pointed out over and over again. Over and over. Over and over. Until the message gets through some thick skulls: that it is not how things are done if you expect to get money from your product. And the list of bugs goes on and on. Not working mystic ruins pop-ups? Should be fixed with in a couple of hours. Yet, exist for days now. New heroes coming out with broken or not working abilities? Should not exist in the first place. Yet, not getting fixed for weeks. And many, many other issues.

But how exactly many of the flaws are getting handled in proper games, you may ask. Well, by proper testing, first and foremost, as I mentioned before. We are not getting any of that, obviously. Second, by having feedback from players. And, oh joy, we are not getting any of that either. The forums are basically useless (I'm not even sure why I'm writing this even), mere presence of Henry here doesn't prove that any information gets through to actual programmers or management. Judging from the pace of bug fixes, or lack there of, i'd say it doesn't get anywhere. Reddit? I don't really know why it exists and if it has any relevance to feedback. Probably not. The official game page in the interwebs? Do you know what Henry said in regards to me pointing out the absence of update on official site for years? He almost literally said "it is not needed, this chat provides way more feedback and is more useful than any internet site could have been". Well, no, Henry, you are being ignorant. Me personally, when I first found out about the game some year and a half ago, first thing I did is searched for official site to learn more about the game. And yet, it has seen zero updates ever since the day I first read it. This is just beyond a realm of understanding of a normal human being like myself, these amounts of neglectance for a valuable asset. This alleged vip only chat? Please, half of the population is blatantly ignorant and doesn't have the balls to admit to themselves that they spent their money on unfinished product. All they do is look Henry into the mouth in awe and wait for another bait and switch with shinnies like "here, guys, have another double purchase event of a powerful hero and stay silent, because we don't care really, we just pretend". Now I must make this really personal to get my point across. I think that Henry just doesn't do his job well. He is awful at it, in fact. All I saw from him was direct insults to players (which is blatantly unprofessional in itself); a lot of talk of "yes, we are aware of state of things", with nothing getting done in days/weeks/months, depending on which part of the game we are talking about; a lot of complaining about us, as players, being too complainy. This last part amuses me the most. Not seeing the obvious point that every single piece of feedback from players is never a complaint but a piece of constructive criticism for any decent game developer, no matter the form it may take. Every single message is, and should be, looked upon. That is how things are done in real businesses caring of their flock. But I might assume that all of this may be a result of language barrier on his side. And that is the only thing I will assume. Granted, that without him, we would not have even this little amount of connection with the developer. And I am thankful at least for that. In the end this is yet another flaw of management of the company as a whole - not putting enough resources into community management thus neglecting the player base almost entirely. There was a place where I saw this once - in Soviet Russia. Do you want to be an equivalent to Soviet Union, Lilith, really?

All of this feedback nonsense brings me to mention the thing that pisses me off to no end: the server merges. The server I am, I was on, was slowly dying for months now. Top guilds having their ranks filled with almost quitting, or those who already quit the game, leaving their characters behind for the sake of guild wars. Top guilds sitting easily over 90-100k guild points earned per three days, now scraping the bottom of a barrel with 30-60k, which is barely enough to keep the raids rolling for those who still hope to no avail for improvement of their beloved game. We waited patiently, we asked, we begged, everywhere we could for a merge, because there are no players to recruit any more, there is no fun in arena without new stock. There is only boredom. So we sit there waiting, yet recently was 6th consecutive merge without our server being involved. So more players will quit, because there is nothing to do aside from leveling heroes really, with nothing to use them on. Remaining ones will suffer even more without the support of thriving community and they will be disappointed. They will not give you their money, Lilith. They are already not giving you money. But all we hear in response is "the system is automated, it doesn't show that your server is inactive". Well, did it ever occur to you that you system is garbage? Did it ever occur to you that you can do merges every week? Did it ever occur to you that it is allowed to expand the server merge list a notch, that it is allowed to merge more of them at the time? Did it ever occur to you, that the actual players on each individual actual server are way more aware of the situation than you will ever be as things are right now? No? I thought so. Because I'm telling you - whatever "system" is currently in place, if there is one even, is obsolete and should have been reworked years ago. Yet all Lilith does is continuing ignoring their players completely.

And speaking of boredom. Speaking of absence of things to do. The updates for the game come at horribly slow pace. And then the update actually hits what do you give us in return for our patience, for which you plead so much in chat? What, a Tower event, that is considerably bugged, surprise, gets completed within 30 minutes, and is not to be seen again for god knows how long - probably two to three months? Please, the content is always welcome, anything at this point. But what you can not understand is that players need long lasting features, not something you can turn off and on again on a whim. Like the village, but working as intended. You took one step in right direction and it took you only 1,5 years to do that one step, breaking a leg in the process. You keep talking about patience? No one has that much patience. The result is obvious - you lose money, good job.

It has been pointed out numerous times, that every single current feature of the game is outdated: the arena, hol, guild wars, crucible. Especially the arenas are begging for rework. Yet you focus on churning out new heroes every other week instead of focusing on the things that really matter. Sure, new heroes bring easy money. But is there not a single person in the company sitting there thinking about long term perspective? It sure as hell does really seem so. What you will get in return in reality is dwindling player base in rapid succession at some point, probably by the end of the year, if you ask me.

So in the end, I know what will happen. Maybe Henry will read this, probably will say usual nonsense about this being just another complaint, when it is not. Maybe you will lock down this post, maybe you will delete it. But in doing so you will just prove my point, which is, to sum it all up: you don't care about your players, you don't care about the game getting better as long as it makes profit, easy buck above all else. You may say that it is not true. But the fact of the matter is that, exactly that, is how we as players see the situation. Some may defend you, due to the lack of dignity or brains, or both. But I know for a fact that many would back me up, many think alike. Many who, like me, are disgusted seeing how great this game could have been, if anybody but the artists did their job properly. Many who would suffer through everything bad that has and will happen with the game in hopes of a brighter future for the sake of entertaining us. Alas, not me. You have finally done it, you have outdone yourself. I quit, and it is Liliths fault.


Very well written post sir. I support you, its sad to see you go but I do understand your position. I do not know how long I will last if things stay as they are. And I am VIP 12. Ignore the usual sheep who will tell you, you have no right to criticize a product you actually paid for...a LOT.
 
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Re: I quit, and it is Liliths fault.

Fri May 12, 2017 5:46 am

LoneWolf wrote:
assenko wrote:
you don't care about your players, you don't care about the game getting better as long as it makes profit, easy buck above all else.

Well, they are a business, they do have to make a living some how. If you don't like it, don't play it. Simple.


So he as VIP 15 (calculate the money spent) has no right to voice his opinion or the criticism of the product he supported with his money? Is this North Korea?
Would you be happy if I sold you a crap car with most of the things not working while I was telling you its perfect at the time of sale? And then tell you its your problem you bought it and I did not force you to do it? I though so.

You just show a horrible personality with your posts.
 
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Re: I quit, and it is Liliths fault.

Fri May 12, 2017 5:51 am

I would also like to add that I think they pushed it to far this time with "Radiant Wings" skin. The outrage on Facebook, here and Reddit shows that.

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