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Makng old hereo viable again

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:02 am
by Holydoc
Llith please try to Rework and Retool some of the older toones. STOP just making a new one each month. Focus on your core Heros. I would rather play a game where my Grinding, knowledge, Synergy makes a difference. NOT JUST HOW MUCH I SPENT. You are k8lling the game for the millio sthat l9ve it just to make a quick buck.

Re: Makng old hereo viable again

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:15 am
by Ivanrgs
Holydoc, sorry for offtop but why do create your message in such bad shape? I mean spelling. It's not even mistakes, it's like you don't care at all.
Many of us are not English native speakers, I am one. I also do typos and mistakes. But I still use auto spell check and just read own message before posting.
So why? Is it some psychological move?

Re: Makng old hereo viable again

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:40 pm
by Zafalkar
I totally agree with you, Holydoc. I tired to lost old fellas in game cuz we dont have a chance anymore. Even me, vip 14, are suffering with this monsters from conjuring trap stone. Many peoples are just stoping with SH and I understand, Hol became a joke. Your suggestion is a solution, but forget it! Changes need to generate some profit to Lilith or will be forgotten by this company.

ps: Dont feel intimidated, feel free to post any time.

Re: Makng old hereo viable again

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:44 pm
by KemosabeTBC
Zafalkar wrote:
I totally agree with you, Holydoc. I tired to lost old fellas in game cuz we dont have a chance anymore. Even me, vip 14, are suffering with this monsters from conjuring trap stone. Many peoples are just stoping with SH and I understand, Hol became a joke. Your suggestion is a solution, but forget it! Changes need to generate some profit to Lilith or will be forgotten by this company.

Keeping customers happy generates profit.

Re: Makng old hereo viable again

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:49 pm
by Zafalkar
KemosabeTBC wrote:
Zafalkar wrote:
I totally agree with you, Holydoc. I tired to lost old fellas in game cuz we dont have a chance anymore. Even me, vip 14, are suffering with this monsters from conjuring trap stone. Many peoples are just stoping with SH and I understand, Hol became a joke. Your suggestion is a solution, but forget it! Changes need to generate some profit to Lilith or will be forgotten by this company.

Keeping customers happy generates profit.



I would like that, but is not the reality on SH, they just dont care. At this moment, the only important thing to Lilith is make happy all rich boys half hands.

Re: Makng old hereo viable again

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:33 pm
by Gremlin
I told this before and i tell this now - use old heroes in stages without serious competition, and fight in Arenas and etc. with new heroes. Lilith dont make all old heroes powerful again. Its bring no benefits for them(they are thinking so). Its very sad for players, but its true of life. Evolution.

Re: Makng old hereo viable again

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:35 pm
by TreeSap
The claim that there is no way for Lilith to generate revenue by making old heroes competitive again just lacks imagination.

Yes, a new hero is a new toy that motivates folks to buy more diamonds, should they have the dough. But making a new hero certainly isn't the only way to achieve that goal. A new hero release fulfills the player's desire for novelty and also the need to keep up with (or beat the snot out of) the Jones'; in other words, to have higher prestige in this little community.

Systems in place for improving favorite heroes can accomplish similar goals, though, without changing core gameplay. They just have to be made, like many things in free-to-play, costly but doable with enough time or money. Awakenings and the hero village are good examples of vehicles where a character can be improved with enough time and money. Awakening-like systems are great because they can be used to improve balance (and thus quality of play and thus increase player base) and make a resource sink for someone to make the greatest Sumiko ever.

The system(s) needed are already along the lines of what Lilith has. They just have to make a new "cap" for heroes, make improving beloved heroes time/resource intensive, and have that end cap be more balanced than what is currently achievable. A Sumiko-loving whale can rocket their Sumiko up, put on their shades, and watch as she blows un-capped Zem's out of the Arena (maybe literally with her ultimate) or something. Is that power creep? Yeah, it is. But it is probably a more satisfying power creep than releasing tons of new heroes all the time, and gives Lilith a chance to rebalance heroes. So, when that Zem-loving whale faces the Sumiko-loving whale (obviously a very simplified scenario, but to demonstrate) and both are capped at the new cap, the gap between the general usefulness of the two heroes has closed quite a bit.

Result:
- money made for Lilith due to value introduced by new system
- better game balance, and thus better game, and thus more players, and thus more revenue opportunities and game content because players=content in social games like this one
- no new heroes introduced, thus newer players are less overwhelmed than they would be otherwise
- level 100's have new things, like coddling their favorite pet Sumiko's, to put their time and money toward and thus maybe better player retention

Cost:
- Making a new system that builds upon current system (probably the awakening system, but other ways possible with creativity)
- actually attempting to balance existing hero teams at their new caps rather than just relying on new hero accretion

Re: Makng old hereo viable again

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:09 pm
by FakeLikeFaker
TreeSap wrote:
The claim that there is no way for Lilith to generate revenue by making old heroes competitive again just lacks imagination.

Yes, a new hero is a new toy that motivates folks to buy more diamonds, should they have the dough. But making a new hero certainly isn't the only way to achieve that goal. A new hero release fulfills the player's desire for novelty and also the need to keep up with (or beat the snot out of) the Jones'; in other words, to have higher prestige in this little community.

Result:
- money made for Lilith due to value introduced by new system
- better game balance, and thus better game, and thus more players, and thus more revenue opportunities and game content because players=content in social games like this one
- no new heroes introduced, thus newer players are less overwhelmed than they would be otherwise
- level 100's have new things, like coddling their favorite pet Sumiko's, to put their time and money toward and thus maybe better player retention

Cost:
- Making a new system that builds upon current system (probably the awakening system, but other ways possible with creativity)
- actually attempting to balance existing hero teams at their new caps rather than just relying on new hero accretion


Yes and no, but it is not that simple. What you're proposing is essentially a new system similar to Awakening to balance old heros. A new system is much harder to implement than just a new hero, we're not talking a 1-2 times harder. We're talking about a linear equation based on the number of heros available.

1) First of all, the Awakening system is not yet finished as ~60% of the heros are still missing their Awakening.
2) The system you're proposing is essentially just another Awakening with no imperative theme. It is basically Awakening part II, because Awakening part 1 failed to do its job. What you're saying is that the current Awakening is a failure and the game needs another Awakening system. Developers will take criticism and feedback from players, but they will not admit their creation as a failure. It is just part of a development cycle for software developers, the developer will always stick with their original goal as they have already invested time/money/effort in it. The only reason why they would actually start over and scrape the current Awakening system would be that their sales and revenue goes down drastically BECAUSE of the current Awakening implementation.
3) Let's think from Lilith's perspective, would it be easier to just release a single hero. Or easier to implement a new system, then balance every single hero in the game (~70 heros in total I think), test all of them, reduce bugs down to a minimum, then finally release it. Chances are, it'll probably take Lilith a week to release a broken hero and make tons of money whereas implementing a new system would take them months. The revenue and profit that Lilith can gain as a direct result of such a system is unknown. If you can do predictive analysis, then be my guest and show me the statistic. Life cycle of mobile game typically don't last long, so it is always ideal for developer to make the most amount of money in the shortest amount of time when possible.

TL:DR, Why make a new system to balance the game for everyone, when you can take the easy route. Releasing OP heros and make tons of $$$ from top spenders is arguably more beneficial than to cater towards bunch of f2p players.

Re: Makng old hereo viable again

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:01 am
by KemosabeTBC
FakeLikeFaker wrote:
TL:DR, Why make a new system to balance the game for everyone, when you can take the easy route. Releasing OP heros and make tons of $$$ from top spenders is arguably more beneficial than to cater towards bunch of f2p players.

Depends. But probably not if the really big spenders are hundreds while the rest of the population is millions.

Re: Makng old hereo viable again

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:26 am
by Thramir
Most of the money made by freemium games is from "whales" that spend huge amounts of money.
This article http://www.psychguides.com/interact/the ... -freemium/ is from 2014 but it shows how it works.

What I really liked about soul hunters was that you didn't have to spend too much money to stay competitive (1 monthly card gets you 4000 gems the same as a 50$ purchase) but with the release of Sylphi and Goram that has really changed.