Dibbl3r
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Re: Heroic Academy Skill Guide and Builds

Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:54 am

GREAT job! It is awesome someone put up everything together to one thread :)

have couple of questions:
1. you recommend healing skills for Zem, but are you sure about the fact that gaining health from killed minion is considered healing? And if yes, what healing talent: Healing or Healing Ratio?
2. about Energy Bonus and Energy Efficiency: e.g. Awakened Selene has +11% of Energy Bonus it the talent is 5/5. But the percentage of what base? if your assumption about Energy Bonus is right and it means more energy gained after killing enemy hero (without bonus it is fixed 300), is the percentage base 300 or 1000 (full energy pool). I do not know what bonus is 5/5 Energy Efficiency, but if it is also percentage, the base would have to be 1000 (full energy pool). Anyway, for example for Awakened Selene there is really low chance she kills someone other way than her ult and Energy Efficiency would be much better choice. But questions are here: are we sure Energy Bonus is what you think it is? and what percentage bases are relevant to each Energy Bonus and Energy Efficiency?
3. is there any talent who helps to accumulate energy faster? I thought it could be Energy Bonus, but I was probably wrong according your assumptions

BTW: here is different explanation of Energy Bonus
Last edited by Dibbl3r on Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Heroic Academy Skill Guide and Builds

Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:14 am

hengli wrote:
Great job! I hope other players can also help, for the ones that have suggestions please post on the topic.


hengli, is there any reason why we did not get official explanaition of all those talents? It is little bit frustraiting trying to guess already implemented features :|
 
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Puckersunchers
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Re: Heroic Academy Skill Guide and Builds

Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:26 am

Dibbl3r wrote:
hengli wrote:
Great job! I hope other players can also help, for the ones that have suggestions please post on the topic.


hengli, is there any reason why we did not get official explanaition of all those talents? It is little bit frustraiting trying to guess already implemented features :|


There is one. Not very explicit one but an explanation nonetheless.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11231
 
Dibbl3r
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Re: Heroic Academy Skill Guide and Builds

Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:31 pm

I have read it and honestly: besides all those strightforward talents, the rest is not complete, is vague and explaining almost nothing
 
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Zi0iP
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Re: Heroic Academy Skill Guide and Builds

Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:00 pm

Great job!
I'll give you as much infos as I can :)

I added this link into the Tier List aswell. :)
 
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HellForce
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Re: Heroic Academy Skill Guide and Builds

Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:18 pm

Dibbl3r wrote:
GREAT job! It is awesome someone put up everything together to one thread :)

have couple of questions:
1. you recommend healing skills for Zem, but are you sure about the fact that gaining health from killed minion is considered healing? And if yes, what healing talent: Healing or Healing Ratio?
2. about Energy Bonus and Energy Efficiency: e.g. Awakened Selene has +11% of Energy Bonus it the talent is 5/5. But the percentage of what base? if your assumption about Energy Bonus is right and it means more energy gained after killing enemy hero (without bonus it is fixed 300), is the percentage base 300 or 1000 (full energy pool). I do not know what bonus is 5/5 Energy Efficiency, but if it is also percentage, the base would have to be 1000 (full energy pool). Anyway, for example for Awakened Selene there is really low chance she kills someone other way than her ult and Energy Efficiency would be much better choice. But questions are here: are we sure Energy Bonus is what you think it is? and what percentage bases are relevant to each Energy Bonus and Energy Efficiency?
3. is there any talent who helps to accumulate energy faster? I thought it could be Energy Bonus, but I was probably wrong according your assumptions

BTW: here is different explanation of Energy Bonus


1. The difference between Healing Ratio and Healing is that Healing Ratio means that your hunters, and I believe summons, we receive more health from any type healing done TO the them where the Healing skill boosts the amount health awarded to hunters FROM your skills. For example Jasmine has both talents and if she has a skill that recovers 500 a wave and has a healing ratio bonus of 10% and an healing bonus of 100% she would heal herself for 1050 (50 from healing ratio and 500 from healing bonus as she is the caster as well) and heal others in the party for 1000 health per wave.

2. For your example I believe Selene would only receive 11% more of the 300 value so she would receive 333 per kill. And for energy efficiency it seems to leave most hunters with about 100 of 1000 filled. Efficiency does seems better for most hunters, especially ones with energy bars that drain like Zem and Riley, but for someone like Serafine who usually gets the kill I believe the bonus would build up faster. So if she kills 2 heroes her energy kill bonus would go to 666/1000 versus if she did not kill anyone then it would go back to 100/1000 with energy efficiency.

3. The only way to accumulate energy faster is from skills from hunters that return energy. For example if you had a team with an Awakened Tholin, Taurus, Lingling, Lucius, and Serafine then your Serafine could ultimate about 2 or 3 times faster depending on how the skills get set off.
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Altair
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Re: Heroic Academy Skill Guide and Builds

Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:34 pm

As for energy efficiency/bonus, the problem is that it's just your assumption.
I think it is logical to assume that the energy bonus added also when you applying / receiving damage. Cuz your energy filled in this way.
I'd like to get an official comment on these two parameters from Hengli.
 
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KemosabeTBC
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Re: Heroic Academy Skill Guide and Builds

Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:11 am

Altair wrote:
As for energy efficiency/bonus, the problem is that it's just your assumption.
I think it is logical to assume that the energy bonus added also when you applying / receiving damage. Cuz your energy filled in this way.
I'd like to get an official comment on these two parameters from Hengli.

His assumption makes no sense otherwise efficiency would be strictly better under all circumstances. I'd like an official answer as well to clear this up.
 
Gmanju
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Re: Heroic Academy Skill Guide and Builds

Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:41 am

HellForce wrote:
Dibbl3r wrote:
GREAT job! It is awesome someone put up everything together to one thread :)

have couple of questions:
1. you recommend healing skills for Zem, but are you sure about the fact that gaining health from killed minion is considered healing? And if yes, what healing talent: Healing or Healing Ratio?
2. about Energy Bonus and Energy Efficiency: e.g. Awakened Selene has +11% of Energy Bonus it the talent is 5/5. But the percentage of what base? if your assumption about Energy Bonus is right and it means more energy gained after killing enemy hero (without bonus it is fixed 300), is the percentage base 300 or 1000 (full energy pool). I do not know what bonus is 5/5 Energy Efficiency, but if it is also percentage, the base would have to be 1000 (full energy pool). Anyway, for example for Awakened Selene there is really low chance she kills someone other way than her ult and Energy Efficiency would be much better choice. But questions are here: are we sure Energy Bonus is what you think it is? and what percentage bases are relevant to each Energy Bonus and Energy Efficiency?
3. is there any talent who helps to accumulate energy faster? I thought it could be Energy Bonus, but I was probably wrong according your assumptions

BTW: here is different explanation of Energy Bonus


1. The difference between Healing Ratio and Healing is that Healing Ratio means that your hunters, and I believe summons, we receive more health from any type healing done TO the them where the Healing skill boosts the amount health awarded to hunters FROM your skills. For example Jasmine has both talents and if she has a skill that recovers 500 a wave and has a healing ratio bonus of 10% and an healing bonus of 100% she would heal herself for 1050 (50 from healing ratio and 500 from healing bonus as she is the caster as well) and heal others in the party for 1000 health per wave.

2. For your example I believe Selene would only receive 11% more of the 300 value so she would receive 333 per kill. And for energy efficiency it seems to leave most hunters with about 100 of 1000 filled. Efficiency does seems better for most hunters, especially ones with energy bars that drain like Zem and Riley, but for someone like Serafine who usually gets the kill I believe the bonus would build up faster. So if she kills 2 heroes her energy kill bonus would go to 666/1000 versus if she did not kill anyone then it would go back to 100/1000 with energy efficiency.

3. The only way to accumulate energy faster is from skills from hunters that return energy. For example if you had a team with an Awakened Tholin, Taurus, Lingling, Lucius, and Serafine then your Serafine could ultimate about 2 or 3 times faster depending on how the skills get set off.


2. First of all your math is wrong and if the energy traits work how you explained then energy efficiency will always be better then energy bonus no matter what. If both are at 10% then when using an ultimate you will have 100 energy left over from efficiency. So that trait would grant you 100 energy for every 1000 energy used. If energy bonus only applies to kills and you fill up your ultimate bar strictly with only 3 kills, you would gain 330 x 3 for a total of 990 energy and then 10 more from an auto attack or something. So if you fill up your ultimate with nothing but kills you will only gain a bonus of 90 energy versus 100 from efficiency.

However this is only true for situations where you get 3 kills and do not gain energy from any other sources. So in the best possible scenario you gain 90 energy from bonus and 100 from efficiency. What happens if it's a raid or hol and you get 0 kills? Are you trying to say that the energy bonus trait is absolutely useless? This would be completely absurd and no one would ever take that trait. I'm assuming what makes the most sense is that energy bonus grants you an increase in energy received from all sources such as dealing dmg, taking dmg, and energy granting abilities.

This would also make the most sense since energy bonus would allow you to get to your ultimate faster while energy efficiency would allow you to chain ultimates faster after the first ultimate has been used. If everything is true in how I explained it then it would make perfect sense and have 2 different approaches to energy manipulation while having a neatly equal overall energy increase from said talents.

Here is my explanation of when to use one or the other.

For zem I took energy bonus because I want to have zem use his ultimate as fast as possible. Sinice zem gets attacked very frequently because he is a tank usually once he uses his ultimate it will usually not fall off during the rest of the match. So energy bonus is a better choice to help him start doing aoe dmg faster and receive his defensive stats as soon as possible since I won't have to worry about him going out of his ultimate. For someone like bloodspear I would rather have energy efficiency since he does not take damage very often and using his ultimate asap is not a concern. You want to use bs ultimate usually when the rest of the team is ready to ultimate themselves for a synergistic combo. On top of this energy efficiency will help bs get to use his 2nd ultimate 10% faster not to mention the faster attacks from his haste buff that will generate more energy as well. So with energy efficiency bs will be able to chain his 2nd ultimate 15 to 20% faster then his 1st ultimate allowing for a greater uptime.

Hope that clear some things up. This whole premise is based on the fact that Lilith is not idiotic in their design choices by intentionally adding 2 energy talents with one superior to the other in every possible scenario. Then again with the offering a ss purchase event on a holiday that comes once a year that is 50% worse then the standard weekly purchase event I would not be suprised. They sure do like to treat players like complete brain dead morons.
 
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KemosabeTBC
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Re: Heroic Academy Skill Guide and Builds

Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:37 am

This time I agree with gmanju :P Although I chose efficiency for Zem cause there are times when it runs out during sustained damage situations (raids). For arena I doubt it will make much difference since the incoming dmg tanks get already grants them a lot of energy fast. Usually being stunned or not is a more important factor when determining how fast he can use his ult.

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